Monday, April 16, 2012

Adult Meltdowns and the Problems of Restraint


I was asked by a reader if I could write something about Adult Meltdowns.  This is my attempt.  It's not terribly good because I find this topic very difficult to write about.  

In children, meltdowns are sometimes incorrectly referred to as "tantrums".  I've talked about the differences between a meltdown and a tantrum before so I won't bore you with the details again.

The key things to remember about meltdowns are as follows;

  • They are not controlled events
  • Once "tripped" they can't be stopped easily.
  • The reasons for them are often long term and/or sensory (even though the triggers are usually immediate).

A young child can often be restrained or moved to a place of safety during a meltdown but what about older kids and adults? As a parent, you can often tell your kids to "go to your room" and sometimes they even comply but what happens when it's your spouse that's having the meltdown?

Adult Meltdowns Do Happen (they're just usually less visible)
It's true, adults do have meltdowns too. I'm not talking about temper flare ups and the urge to hit people who don't agree. You don't need to be on the spectrum to have those - though having a little alcohol and/or stress sometimes helps.

I'm talking about fully-fledged out-of-control meltdowns.

Most adults today with a history of meltdowns are able to exercise at least a degree of contol over their triggers.  We often know when someone is "pushing our buttons" and can switch topics or leave the room.  Similarly, if we walk into a store where the music is too loud, we can ask the storekeeper to turn it down - or we can choose to walk out again. We're at least that much better off than our children.

The Problems of Restraint
Unfortunately, there are situations in which we can't exercise our adult rights. Sometimes abusive people corner us, sometimes we get into situations from which we can't extract ourselves and sometimes we find that we are overwhelmed too quickly to react.

Police Action
One of the most common occasions in which an adult meltdown is triggered is during police action. Unfortunately, this is probably the worst time for one to occur because violent or noisy outbursts are often met with both violence and legal action.

When the police are called in to deal with stressful situations such as domestic issues, car accidents or minor infractions, the adult aspie is already stressed.  As tension builds and they feel a meltdown looming, they will attempt to remove themselves from the situation.  Unfortunately, during police action, this ability and this "right" is significantly reduced. It's quite common for innocent aspies to run from the police and it's equally common for aspies to resort to violent outbursts in these situations.

It's probably important to let the police know that you have aspergers syndrome as early as possible and to ask to be able to talk in a less confrontational situation.  In some cases, "taking a ride downtown" might be a safer option than trying to discuss it at the scene of the issue.

The Restraint of Responsibility 
The restricted ability to remove oneself from a situation isn't just about the law however. Adults with aspergers can be restricted at home by spouses who invade their personal space leaving them with nowhere to retreat to.

Responsibility is also a very restrictive force. Consider the parent who takes their children to a play center only to discover that the noise levels and social anxiety are pushing them to the verge of a meltdown. It isn't simply a case of leaving because the kids can't be left alone in such a place.

Many parents with sensory difficulties normally avoid such places but when they're chosen by other parents as venues for children's parties, they often attend rather than deny their own children a chance to make friends.

Sometimes you have little choice but to put yourself in meltdown territory and hope that nothing tips you over the edge.




Next time: I want to look at how the rules of relationships need to change to accommodate the needs of meltdown-prone adults.

52 comments:

Aspergermoeder said...

Thanks for this post! Ever since I have a child I feel the reponsibility really pressing down on me and I never had so many meltdowns as I have had the past 3 years of my son's life. During a meltdown I feel like I can't escape because I can't leave my son alone. I just HAVE to cope with the situation until my husband comes home from work. Raising a child isn't easy!

bjforshaw said...

So true. The urge to escape from stressful situations can conflict terribly with one's sense of responsibility. I can't handle confrontations because they are too stressful, but I also can't break my "behavioral rules". If escaping the confrontation would involve breaking a rule I'm trapped - and feeling trapped is stressful in itself. Only a short step from that to overload and meltdown. And people never seem to see the signs that I'm getting close to the edge.

Monkeyfoot said...

+1 here. I also have a 3 year old and it's been an incredibly difficult 3 years. I love my daughter to death, but usually try to leave activities outside the home with her to my wife. By staying as involved as possible at home I can avoid the meltdown territory mentioned in the post. However, why is it that children love to play with multiple toys at once that play different tunes, all while the radio is playing????

Justin said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Justin said...

Having a child, especially one on the spectrum, makes life much more interesting for us adults on the spectrum. I just spent the weekend camping with my 6 year old son and a pack of scouts... also his first experience with scouts. It was an exercise in restraint for us both.

Aspergermoeder said...

@bjforshaw: I hear ya!! People don't see my overload coming either and I don't seem to be clear enough about it.
@Monkeyfoot:toys with batteries and tunes are not alowed in my home :)!

Anonymous said...

Thanks. 15 yrs ago my daughter ran out of a psychiatrist's office. The Dr. said 'probably' Asperger's but the diagnosis was incomplete. She jumped out of the car that day and the issue wasn't pushed. Now 24 I am seeing the same 'meltdowns' I think she holds off until she sees me. I don't know where to go from here; it's a deadend. I feel badly (she thinks her reactions are within normal range) and I'm too tired to tolerate them. Any advice?

Jay W said...

Thank you very much for this post. I really appreciate that someone has taken the time to talk online about adults with Asperger Syndrome. I am generally 'taught' to believe that meltdowns are something that I've done wrong and therefore have to face retribution for. However my atitude is, and always has been, you would not charge me for damage caused by hurricanes? I have as much control over those as I do meltdowns. OK sometimes I can control them, but sometimes I really cannot control them at all. At those times anything I do is not enough to sate my anger. I have been arrested and charged with domestic abuse because my ex-girlfriend got me into such a meltdown state. Being placed in the cells did not help me at all - it actually made my meltdowns a lot worse and I was threatening people with rape of people close to them, and with murder. I look back now and am shocked that I would have even came out with such things, but when I am in a meltdown stage, it is like I cannot help it. OK Imagine that you are controlling your emotions through an XBox game and someone unplugs the controller thus letting your emotions go on to auto-mode and do their own thing. This is what it can be like for me

Anonymous said...

"However my atitude is, and always has been, you would not charge me for damage caused by hurricanes?"

Yeah, shame on them for treating you like a human being instead of a weather pattern or wild animal.

Anonymous said...

"Being placed in the cells did not help me at all"

So what if it didn't help you? It helped your ex-girlfriend and whomever else you were threatening. That's the whole point of locking up people who threaten to hurt other people.

Sarahiously said...

Very insightful thankyou!

Anonymous said...

The reality is that nobody possesses the right to harm another human being. I have TWO children on the spectrum and suffer with Asperger's myself ALONE...as a SINGLE parent. The moment we provide ANYONE a liscence to harm another we have failed miserably. The HONEST truth is that if we cannot function safely in society, then there is a responsibility to remove ourselves(AND our children) from social settings. If you abuse women within the context of a committed relationship then YOU need to make the personal, HONEST self assessment and determination that you should NOT participate in such a relationship. The responsibility is ALL YOURS!! It is not the job of society to change the rules for you.

Hannah said...

Or if one is a female the adult meltdowns are inward to myself I become my own worse enemy. I end up cutting my arms legs body to hell and while melting down its at least 30 cuts or more 3 skin layers deep to fatty tissue many of them. Learning myself what triggers them has helped I have a list of the triggers. Sometimes new additions are added and I meltdown by myself or if I'm around people I'll verbally degrade myself or them. I'm quiet in command of language and can barb crass with cruel Easley. Without the use of foul language! No idea who could help me and I do so desperately want help but people.shrink away from me and that hurts.

Kaylee said...

Yes, of course -- OTHER people are responsible for your mektdowns. By coming too close to YOU, the other person is obvious responsible for triggering you.

"if you didn't make me so mad, I wouldn't have to hit you!"... Textbook language from theouth of the abuser!!

Anonymous said...

My aspie ex used to hit me during meltdowns...and always had just one thing to say. afterwards..." if u hadn't pushed me to it I wouldn't have hit you" Take it from a person who has suffered fractures, bruises, cuts, concussions for months on end....you and only YOU are responsible for you behaviour. Injuring another person is inexcusable. N you are the only one to be blamed. Not your partner, not you child, not your pet, not your friend...no one but YOU.

Ashtamangala said...

To the anonymous Comment about an abusive Aspie ex-spouse:
When an Aspie feels a melt-down coming on, the best thing to do is to leave the presence of other people and find a place to be alone. I am non-violent during meltdowns, but if someone intrudes I will yell at them to "leave me alone!" It is important to differentiate between a Meltdown and a Shutdown. Some people in Shutdown do lose consciousness, however briefly. Most people injure themselves under those circumstances and don't strike out violently at others. I am curious whether your ex was also a substance abuser. The "blaming others" is not typical Aspie behavior, even when they are in extreme distress -- unless their request to be left alone was not respected. If the Aspie has nowhere to go, maybe the spouse and children could leave for a few hours? You didn't discuss what "triggered" these meltdowns. This seems a bit too violent for a meltdown and more like temper tantrums in children and adolescents. Did your ex have other co-morbid problems, like PTSD, for example?

Ernie CC Young de Herrera Jr. V.D.V. said...

I'm a single Aspie! I have one daughter! Her mother left us in 2002. A years later came back with a new boyfriend. Someone new to have coitus with.
we went to court in 2003 and because I am an Aspie and I don't reach their intellectual standards. My case worker betrayed me! If I were a female Aspie one might ask would it be the same out come as it is that I am a male Aspie?

I love! And love is a very strong word!!! I love my "daughter!" With all heart and being! That truly makes absolute sense to me! For ten years now I have met heartaches and defeats on a new level! For the fourth time my daughters mother, is threatening to to terminate my parental rights! For No good reason. My daughter is well! Very smart! Brilliant so far at math. Taught her to read and I taught her math at the of 3! I also showed her the mathematical equation of sports such as her favorite, soccer!!! She is my lil Einstein and my favorite FUTBOL player!!!!!!! My daughter is 13 years of age. Is anyone familiar with Parental Alienation Syndrome? I do, I have dealt with the narcissism of my daughters mother! Not to talk badly!!! We all have this human flaw! The motheris Alienating me.from my daughter, and doing everything to sabotage my relationship with our daughter. This is attempt No.#4! The neurotypical mother I might add! Is continuing to sever my relationship by ingratiating the judge, with my mental health. My lawyer and case worker/advocate allowed them to get my medical history.. Violating my human rights. Not mention the hypa law! I will have to spell check I believe it is hypa!
If anyone reads this! Can you help me? I have court September 20 2012. I'm tired of being bullied! I love my daughter!!!!!!! I'm a good Papa to her! I love her with my heart! My meltdown status is very current! Repetitive reactions, stressed, over stimulation. I would it if I could see everything wrong inside! Like a toy or a car! You can just fix it! Please, fellow Aspie brothers and sisters can you as neurotypical siblings or close friends would say, " can you help a brother out?

Cordially, Ernie Ccamvega Young de Herrera Jr. V.D.V.

Ernie CC Young de Herrera Jr. V.D.V. said...

I'm a single Aspie! I have one daughter! Her mother left us in 2002. A years later came back with a new boyfriend. Someone new to have coitus with.
we went to court in 2003 and because I am an Aspie and I don't reach their intellectual standards. My case worker betrayed me! If I were a female Aspie one might ask would it be the same out come as it is that I am a male Aspie?

I love! And love is a very strong word!!! I love my "daughter!" With all heart and being! That truly makes absolute sense to me! For ten years now I have met heartaches and defeats on a new level! For the fourth time my daughters mother, is threatening to to terminate my parental rights! For No good reason. My daughter is well! Very smart! Brilliant so far at math. Taught her to read and I taught her math at the of 3! I also showed her the mathematical equation of sports such as her favorite, soccer!!! She is my lil Einstein and my favorite FUTBOL player!!!!!!! My daughter is 13 years of age. Is anyone familiar with Parental Alienation Syndrome? I do, I have dealt with the narcissism of my daughters mother! Not to talk badly!!! We all have this human flaw! The motheris Alienating me.from my daughter, and doing everything to sabotage my relationship with our daughter. This is attempt No.#4! The neurotypical mother I might add! Is continuing to sever my relationship by ingratiating the judge, with my mental health. My lawyer and case worker/advocate allowed them to get my medical history.. Violating my human rights. Not mention the hypa law! I will have to spell check I believe it is hypa!
If anyone reads this! Can you help me? I have court September 20 2012. I'm tired of being bullied! I love my daughter!!!!!!! I'm a good Papa to her! I love her with my heart! My meltdown status is very current! Repetitive reactions, stressed, over stimulation. I would it if I could see everything wrong inside! Like a toy or a car! You can just fix it! Please, fellow Aspie brothers and sisters can you as neurotypical siblings or close friends would say, " can you help a brother out?

Cordially, Ernie Ccamvega Young de Herrera Jr. V.D.V.

Anonymous said...

To Ashtamangla: the most common trigger for his meltdown for having a different opinion from his. Let me give you an example: there was a new boss who had joined our team. He was also my ex's boss in his previous firm & my ex regarded him as his mentor. When the boss joined my firm he invited the team along with their spouses/fiances/life partners for dinner and drinks, his purpose being to get to know the team. During dinner he addressed his team and said " nobody is indispensible. No matter how good you are at work, none of you should make the mistake of thinking you are indispensable" now you can imagine that didn't sit well with the team...hearing a comment like that from your new boss. So on our way home when we were discussing how the dinner went I remarked saying that was not the wisest thing for the boss to have said. He lashed out at, slapping me, hitting ,me right there, in the car, saying how dare you say that. He is my mentor. His comment is not wrong. You dare not say anything wrong about him. Now i know the team didnt like it. I am part of that team. I thought the comment by the boss was not the most appropriate thing to say at a team dinner. Now what would you have me do ? Jump out of a moving vehicle so the aspie can have his space ????!!!!! Get real !! And for what??? Having a different opinion from his about a subjective comment ??!! And what does my ex say the morning after..."you pushed me to that by saying boss is wrong when I know he is not wrong in what he said" it is always the other person to be blamed for pushing the aspie into a state of violent meltdown. It is never his fault. Come on...get real. There is no excuse for hitting someone for having a different opinion. If an aspie can't handle the fact that other people will have differing opinions on various matters it not the other person's fault. The aspire alone is responsible for his inflexibility. You can't hit someone. No matter what. Period.

Anonymous said...

According to http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/09/11/what-chris-browns-tattoo-tells-us-about-violence-against-women/

"[men who batter women, men who rape women, and other men on a dominance trip over women] depend on others to make excuses for them, to say they didn't mean it that way or to claim that maybe they really don't know what they're doing or claim that they just lost their temper or that it's just a joke."

Ashtamangala said...

As is evident, it is as much or more stressful BEING an adult with Aspergers as it is having and raising a child with or without Aspergers or simply EXISTING as an adult with Aspergers and living day to day in a world that is often stressful.

I made a decision NOT to have a child due to the fear that they would if not inherit, "learn" from me the social phobia, the different ways of perceiving things, the melt downs, etc. It has been difficult enough to cope with being me..to visit this upon a child? I lacked the courage to make the attempt.

I TELL people when I am hitting overload and some do not listen. A few are even sadistic and deliberately continue ridiculing or criticizing me (these are the people I turn away from forever). I will not get violent. I will not tolerate violence against me.

I feel honest empathy for those on the spectrum who are raising children and remain responsible. For you I have great admiration! Thank you for staying with your child or children in spite of your pain, which I know only too well. My mother was NT and abandoned me to my abusive father (an Aspie alcoholic w/PTSD). She was self-centered & didn't seem interested in trying to understand me. To her, I was just a burden. She left me to raise my own father, who was a destroyed man. I was a little girl, seven years old, being punished for all the wrongs of war and the wrongs this woman had done. So again, I thank you Aspies who are kind, loving and patient with your children and do not desert them or what is best in yourselves.

Ashtamangala said...

To Sept 5 comment from Anonymous. This behavior is absolutely unacceptable and outrageous! I am questioning whether the diagnosis of "Aspie" is correct & whether ASPD is not more appropriate for this man! The sudden "lashing out without warning"..most Aspies DO give indication that they are upset and do NOT corner others or "trap them" in situations that are very dangerous or impossible to exit safely. Your EX is one of the strangest Aspies I've ever heard of! I am an Aspie and I am non-violent and will not accept violent treatment from others!

You have the RIGHT to a differing opinion and NO ONE has the right to do physical harm to you! In this you have my complete and total support! I was just amazed that an Aspie would behave so sadistically, so abruptly! I thought..maybe there is some sort of communication problem, here? NO! There is NO communication problem here! Your EX is someone you should stay away from! Get a transfer to another part of the company and a restraining order! What reason do you have to continue seeing him outside of work, at all?

The "Boss"sounds like someone from MSFT...I worked there and very much disliked this SAME attitude (it is an old LIE intended to devalue each individual member of a "team"..do NOT believe it!). This "Aspie" is your EX? What reason, other than time at work together, do you have to spend ANY time alone in his company? HE HAS NO CONSCIENCE! He beats you up and blames YOU because you expressed a difference of opinion?!? What happens when he KILLS you or one of your pets? I did not understand before...I do NOW. Aspies may sometimes have low Empathy, but they are not lacking in a sense of right and wrong. Your EX cannot see what is right and what is wrong. I will ask again about substance abuse and also question the diagnosis of "Aspie." He behaves like a PREDATOR. Please protect yourself from him NOW. Speak with a lawyer, police, your family, close friends (who will NOT speak to him), Doctors. Get AWAY from him. Do you happen to know who formally diagnosed him? I question the sanity and skill of this Doctor!

Ashtamangala said...

In response to Anonymous' comment of 8/12/12

These men who abuse may count on others to apologize for them, but there ARE no apologies and NO excuses. I do not care WHAT a woman SAYS or the tone or voice she uses. TO slap her. to punch her, to kick her, grab her and slam her into walls, trap her in a corner and shove her back when she attempts to go by, trip her so she stumbles and falls, act as if you're being a gentleman and then deliberately HIT her with the arm of a chair while you sarcastically "apologize" and your idiot friends laugh. There ARE no excuses. There ARE no apologies. AND you are in all likelihood NOT men with Aspergers Syndrome. Aspies know the difference between right and wrong, even when they have low Empathy. Whoever formally diagnosed a brutal, sadistic man as an "Aspie" when this man didn't clearly have other co-morbid issues and problems with substance abuse didn't do such a great job and a second opinion is definitely called for before some long-suffering woman DIES because you made a bad judgement call and allowed a Psychopath to masquerade as a person with Aspergers. Brutality is NEVER a joke. Melt downs do NOT involve adults suddenly and without warning lashing out and beating women who are TRAPPED and cannot escape their tormentor because they stated in a non-confrontational way a difference of opinion. Any man who tells you he is an Aspie and behaves like this to you is a LIAR. You call police, get yourself, children, pets, to a safe place, talk to a lawyer, get a restraining order and NEVER have anything to do with this maniac again! This is not, I repeat, NOT, the way an adult person with Aspergers behaves! I am an Aspie! Aspies are not predatory people who enjoy doing harm to others! ASPD is not the same as ASPERGERS. Aspies with substance abuse disorders and co-morbid problems need additional professional help! DO NOT REMAIN WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE PHYSICALLY HARMING YOU!

Anonymous said...

I had a melt down at home after a long period of stress. I don't remember exactly what happened. I was sure that PVC had not been invented. This meant that my mum could not use the phone. The logic was that the phone cables could not have been made with out plastic insulation . The fact that my Mum was trying to contact the local crises team seemed a impossibility so I insisted she couldn't . Eventually the Police escorted me to this unit and I was not happy . I felt I was being kidnapped . I was sectioned as I refused help. While in the hospital I got into trouble for switching of all of the tv sets. With out PVC they shouldn't be working . I received a diagnosis of aspergers syndrome and acute stress. This has happened before. My physciatrist told me that I exhibit phscofrenic like symptoms but i don't have phscofrenia. I am dyslexic . I am aware that under stress I tend to retreat into a fantasy world. I have spent a night in a police cell . I like their humour as their was a sign saying it was illegal to write graffittee on the walls! I have never been able to get a job and even voluntary work proves stressfull. I am LGBT probably GB though I have only ever had a girl friend . I don't like kissing so it was difficult showing emotions. I have only been diagnosed a few months . This is just how my life is . I would like a relationship but I like being single. Not being sure about GB complicates matters . I'm called David.

Anonymous said...

"These men who abuse may count on others to apologize for them, but there ARE no apologies and NO excuses."

My point exactly!

You might like this link too - it's a cool metaphor: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/07/31/readercon-harassment-etc/#comment-346433

Hershele Ostropoler says:
August 4, 2012 at 12:30 am

"If you step on my foot, you need to get off my foot.

"If you step on my foot without meaning to, you need to get off my foot.

"If you step on my foot without realizing it, you need to get off my foot.

"If everyone in your culture steps on feet, your culture is horrible, and you need to get off my foot.

"If you have foot-stepping disease, and it makes you unaware you're stepping on feet, you need to get off my foot. If an event has rules designed to keep people from stepping on feet, you need to follow them. If you think that even with the rules, you won't be able to avoid stepping on people's feet, absent yourself from the event until you work something out.

"If you're a serial foot-stepper, and you feel you're entitled to step on people's feet because you're just that awesome and they're not really people anyway, you're a bad person and you don't get to use any of those excuses, limited as they are. And moreover, you need to get off my foot.

"See, that's why I don't get the focus on classifying harassers and figuring out their motives. The victims are just as harassed either way."

Jean said...

@ Ernie CC Young de Herrera Jr. V.D.V. - No, not because you are a male aspie. I am an aspie mother who lost both her children to their father.

I love my children more than anything or anyone. That doesn't make people see me as a good mother. Love isn't enough.

The stresses of working and sensory issues makes being a parent incredibly hard.

Through a lot of personal growth and evaluation, I have come to understand myself and what is best for my children. As much as my heart screams I want them with me 24-7... reality doesn't play out that way. My needs and behaviors yields a different reality.

I miss them. Oh how I miss them.

Anonymous said...

What to do when your Aspie child refuses to talk to you after ameltdown for days.

Anonymous said...

"Sometimes you have little choice but to put yourself in meltdown territory and hope that nothing tips you over the edge"

>>>THIS<<< As an adult female aspie in a 30-year relationship - I am forced to attend family get-togethers, wedddings, bridal showers, etc. - although I have grown fond of his family over the years, I never want to attend this gatherings, because I know I am a ticking time bomb, and those one or two people in his family that I absolutely CANNOT STAND, will be there, and will be sure to annoy the living hell out of me. I have had many, many, close calls and barely-deferred meltdowns over the years, and they are always AWFUL and so stressful to endure. I feel SO MUCH like a trapped animal at these events. Aspergers can be both heaven (when I'm alone and in a "safe" environment, feel an absolute joy and sense of well-being, that I can't imagine NT's would understand) and pure hell on Earth. ~ 46 y/o female Aspie

Anonymous said...

I'm tired of NT women! Always making it sound like I'm stupid. I see all things in the Matrix for the way it is, not How I want to see! Everything proper comes with logical guide. It's as if NT women and well NT's in general need us to continuously parrot back what things really are. For instance the proper meaning of GAY in English is happy, right? well NT's define it's true meaning to something it has never meant. (homosexual) like Fag means cigarette not (homosexual) and they use B*tch to describe human women who are either mean, nasty or cruel. It means female dog really, you NT women that refer to the word used to describe a female dog, are being called or even calling yourselves and other females b*tches even homosexual's. Misrepresentation is the worst.

I can't stand it! I want finally female of my own species! People hate me! Some cry Cause they say there stupid! And when I tell them That's no reason to cry! For instance one cries because their sad! And I'm sad because other's are stupid.
They don't get my sadness and the trouble I've seen, And none of them know my sorrows. And they certainly don't understand I'm trying to help them.

I've learn that I can't! So what do I do now? I want a wife, best friend, companion! Friends that love me and my daughter. O bother!

This is Ernie Young de Herrera Jr. Till then have a nice day!

Ashtamangala said...

First, let me establish the fact that I am not at all representative of the NT female upon which your complaint is based. I am an Aspie female, formally diagnosed and I find your complaint somewhat strange and more than a little bit bigoted.

To express a blanket condemnation of ANY group of people within society is your right, but it is also MY right to disagree with a blanket condemnation of all women who are Neurotypical.

It arouses my suspicions when people speak or describe things in terms of absolutes: rarely does a person "always" or "never" act in the same way repeatedly.

I'm uncertain what you mean by "everything proper comes with (a) logical guide", because I've not found this to be true. The meaning of MANY words within various cultures have changed over years and decades and you've chosen some very provocative examples when there are many more that illustrate the point without possibly upsetting anyone. "Dog" became an expression that meant much more than man's best friend and was sometimes positive.

There was a time when calling a person a "mudsill" was considered a terrible insult, but it is still a fundamental part of construction.

No one can reach inside of you and make you feel stupid, unless you agree with them. If you do not believe you are stupid, no one can convince you that you are.

As for your species, what is it? You are saying you are a human being with Asperger's. I am writing in response to what you've written and I am a female human being with Asperger's (and ADHD and PTSD).

Do you really believe that EVERYONE hates you or are you afraid to give people a chance to know you? Have you seen a counselor and talked about the way you feel?

There are a LOT of people in the world and to be writing that billions of people you have not even met hate you... that's judging yourself and others pretty harshly, imo. You've just gotten through the holidays... these are tough times. Get professional help. Be honest with your counselor and with yourself.

All you want is all MOST of us wants: to be happy, to be loved and to be accepted. This might seem very simple from our point of view; very often it is not at all simple. We think we see ourselves as we are and often we don't. That is what makes a good counselor so important.

Being an Aspie does not guarantee that one will get along with another Aspie. Regardless of how upset I become, I am non-violent. I will not tolerate threats or "hate speech".

If I were to meet a man with Asperger's who behaved violently in my presence or who was abusive with me or anyone else, I'd be unable to remain in close proximity to this man and I'd do everything within the law to remove any other person he might hurt to a place of safety.

So, knowing this, is ii only NT women who are a problem for you? Have you managed to have a successful relationship with a woman who has Asperger's? You say you have a daughter. By condemning yourself as "stupid", what sort of message do you think she is getting from this?

Ashtamangala said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Ms. Ashtamangala

First of all! " My Autism Asperger's Syndrome is a Nuerological Disorder!" If you have (AS) a (HFA) you would know that."

Autism is not a mental illness!
Ptsd, depression, bipolar, is a mental illness. These I do not have. As (A) true Aspie! My inheritance comes from my father on his side of the family. I don't know How I can or could make myself much clearer to anyone including you! As you have taken my personal feelings toward the issues I've had to endure with nuerotypical females or NT's in general, offensive to you yourself! I'am So Sorry! Bazinga!!! I'm really not!!!
If I say peanut butter! do I mean peanut butter in some other way? Of course not! It (is) just peanut butter! Literally okay?

And I take things literally for what they are!!! I don't see this or that the way I want to!
But it is very obvious that you see what you want to see, as they say: "Everything is black and white with you!" Aspies do not see your point of view if you see things the way the Nuerotypical world dose. If your an Aspie! Why would you be affended? Your comments seem to be of the hurtful intent. I detect, that you may feel superiority by adding and adding your own feelings. As an Aspie! born into a Nuerotypical world. From the time of my youth! To comprehend the meaning of feelings and emotions to be in dire need of any closeness to people has s always alluded me! Now material objects, I have more of a bond with than any human. I did not cry, or show emotion. I explored by running away. I taught myself to read at the age of 3. And by four, I knew How to multiply by 12's. I got beat up for correcting people, as they had no clue of the way things should be. For example: "I was told to go to hell. I corrected the individual for using a word he did not understand! Thus telling him what the meaning of hell actually is."

Hell means: "The common grave of mankind. Not a literal place of fire and torment. Job, Jesus and all who have died and will die, are going to the common grave of man kind! The Hebrew word (Sheol) the Greek word (Haides) and the English word (Hell) all mean the samething! "THE COMMON GRAVE OF MANKIND." The proper word he should have used to describe what he was saying to me, is (Gehenna). Means everlasting destruction, burned in the fire, gone forever. You'll never live again!!! you are no more!!!
Well, then, this other individual says to me: "He is actually telling you to just shut up!
my comment after words again corrected him as I then said: " why didn't you just ask me nicely to stop talking or to keep quiet, shut up? "I understand English! dont you?" That did not end well.
Or if someone cries and says they are stupid. I wouldn't cry because I did not know something! I would learn it! And then parrot it back to other's to help them! Even though at my expense I'am bullied, treated with disdain and contempt.
I'm going to try to help you understand.
A person saying they are stupid isn't a reason to cry! One cries because one is sad! For example: "I cry because other's are stupid, and that makes me sad!
If you Ms..Ashtamangala think you are "A" true Aspie through and through! Then why would you not understand the words I posted?
Another example: "Why would an Aspie say formally diagnosed? If you are! Then you always have been, since you came into the world! And when you just became diagnosed you wouldn't
say: "O now I have a Form of Autism, or, I have Asperger's Syndrome NOW!
O FYI!.For someone like you who has ADHD and PTSD, and !!!NO!!! NOT AUTISM!!! Don't "YOU" need a counselor or Therapist, phsyciatrist? Because, I certainly don't!!! And I'm not crazy!!! My family had me tested! I have an IQ. of 175! And things I should know that are beneficial in this world I do know!

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Now I have helped you and thoroughly corrected you!!!

A Female Aspie is what I want, because the world has no place still for the different and brilliant a like.

My experience is, as mi abuelita says: "Mijo like speaks to like, stick with your own kind!"

See my Dr. reccomends that I do So, and I intend to. I want to be loved by my own kind A nice beautiful Female Aspie! It is only, logical that I find a Female Aspie counter part. What is it to you? If you can't understand well I forbid you to post on my posts!!! After all, if you do not understand what I'am saying and you have an uncertainty of my words, And you not capable of inquiring of what I mean, before you judge me, then your words are vain and pitiful at best! There is no welcome here!!! There is no room for an attack on me for posting my thoughts! That is who I'am! What is my life to you? You are confused by me! How i s it you could ever be an Aspie of our kind! Obviously, we are segregated and not of Nuerotypical origin! You would challenge that? A blind human being, is
neither Nuerotypical or Autistic! So How can you judge our kind! "We are Aspies!" We are happy that is what we are and I was born Autistic, an Aspie you weren't, Right? Because you just all of a sudden became an Aspie. Huh! You are !!!NOT!!! YOU ARE an N.T.F. So How dare you, bully us because we don't fit to your liking you are Autistic, Aspie!

Ernie Young de Herrera

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Ms.Ashtamangala I want to apologize, for becoming irritated with you!

And for giving harsh correction, I was upset by your snide remarks and decided to set you straight, for it did not make sense that you would make comments as you did. And it still doesn't. I need not to worry myself with your irrational comments! I will tell you, I realize as someone who is struggling with other's impositions against me. That I do not understand! Why do other's issues with me affect me? Their issues aren't mine to bare.

But none the less, I'am trying harder than ever to be A Christian, Christ like. my own Imperfections, I apologize again!!! Please, accept my gesture as an act of humility, even though I at times may struggle to find it with in myself!

Ernie Young de Herrera

Gavin Bollard said...

Just a reminder to keep things on topic and steer away from personal attacks.

All people with Asperger's syndrome are different and even the diagnostic criteria is far from complete particularly in terms of women.

Anonymous said...

My 63yo AS husband had a meltdown yesterday because I didn't eat the oatmeal he had fixed for me. I wanted to eat something else. He screamed at me and said he was mad because I didn't tell him sooner so he would have made one serving.
The first time this happened over my saying I would fix something for dinner in the AM and later said I didn't feel up to it. He screamed at me and went out for pizza. He says he cannot trust me anymore. I am making him angry.
I think I have tolerated these and other meltdowns too long.
I really do not feel the same about him as I once did.

Ernie Cc Young de Herrera Jr V.D.V. said...

Hey you went into this knowing he needs you to not be lax with him! He obviously loves you … isn't it the simplest thing for you to remember that he hasn't changed... because we don't like change. But if there is, like your husband! You need to continue to be understanding and up front a head of time. Because … simply put, it's not him that's changed! But you! And butting head with him because you think controlling him is fare, isn't! You weren't born this way! It's by no fault of his! You should of thought about that along time ago …! All you need to do is remember why you fell in love with him in the first place! Think about his feelings!!! Your nuerotypical … He's not! Love him for who He's always been especially since He's your husband! You should know better. I hope you take my word's the right way! I'm an Aspie to! I'm harmless! But just cause I have a meltdown, dose not mean I'm abnormal or crazy or as mean person. 10 out 10 time's when are careless when you change something or don't appreciate something he did for you …! He'll have a meltdown because you are not acting the.same all of the time, when you absolutely need to!!! He would do it for you if the shoe was on the other foot! There are no double standards here. He's an Aspie! You should know better!!!

Ernie Cc Young de Herrera Jr V.D.V. said...

To Mrs. Ashtamangala

Clearly when you didn't understand when I said: Everything proper comes with a logical guide! You know nothing about Euclid! Euclid's, axciums and common notions. Euclid's 1st common notion is this! Thing's which are the same or that equal to the same thing, are equal to each other. This is a rule of mathematical reasoning, it's True!
Like Euclid said: This is self evident! So … I say again … and no! What I said: was not bigoted! Simpleton! to find a female Aspie because I need to be with someone like me is DUH! SELF EVIDENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thing's which are the same or equal to the same thing's are equal to each other! A rule of mathematical reasoning.

Don't assume please, it's not characteristic of a female Aspie k! Thank you,

Vanessa said...

My brother-in-law has at times played imaginary musical instruments during conversation. During a particularly stressful time recently, he started firing what looked like imaginary bows from and imaginary crossbow. I have never commented on this behaviour. Could this be stimming and could have Apergers? He has also displayed other unusual traits.

Anonymous said...

Dear Vanessa

I want you to know that each Aspie is different! No two are completely the same in who they are and where they are nuerologically.

Now if never diagnosed. Your brother in law is not known as to what criteria, or diagnosis would fit his behavioural traits. Therefore being considered undiagnosed and unknown.

Please, be encouraged to research the curiosty you have. One way to start would be finding books online or paper back. Online has a much broader and more detailed scope of the very specific traits and diagnosis of (AS) Asperger's Syndrome. (HFA) A Higher Functioning Autism. Vanessa there are many spectrum's of Autism. (AS) being the most High Functioning. Iam an Aspie! I like my Aspie kind are not [NT] which defines to Aspies, those who arent Autistic, and who understand the public society of today! There is nuerologically, no understanding to us... the way this very distraut and unorganized world works. as Aspies male and female, EVERYTHING haS to be literal and A matter of fact. Just to give you insight!

Vanessa ask Professional's in the field study of Autism, Dr.'s, psychiatrists. The scope of an affirmed confirmation is very fine. Fine line is criterialy adimit in discovery of true diagnosis whether Autistic, or not!

I hope all is well in your journey, if you so choose to make it one.

I appreciate your thought's, Ernie Cc. Young de Herrera V.D.V

Anonymous said...

I have a 23 yr old nf recently diagnosed with asp. He is mainly negetive. Worried about everything. He has ptsd as well. His melt downs seem to be happening every few days now. He has destroyed my self esteem in two yrs and caused me to fear hos rage fits. I am also dealing with ptsd for physical and mental abuse. I recently was informed he doesnt want to lose me and wants to marry. But i know this os not getting any easier. Friends and family tell me to leave him.
I know hes like a scared child inside. Ive met this side whenhes exausted after a huge meltdown. But every other day he is critical of everything i do. Controlling,demoralizing...hes called me every nasty mame i can think. Some times i think he has turrets.
Seriously tho. He thought he didnt need meds. But it is progressing to threats of damaging property. Hurting my dog. Trying to keep me away from friends and family. I just dont think the ends justify the means.
But i promised him i would never give up.

Miriam Peacock said...

I'am an AS sufferer, female. Has people around often call, they say that I have sudden outbursts & it has landed me in a lot of extreme situations, by lashing. Has I may be upset either my routine has been changed or I have been hit. I don't think that anyone gives peoples disabilities neither the person trapped inside, the opportunity to survive in the world today then.
Non-talking aspie.

Chad Ernie Young Jr. said...

I don't suffer from Something I was born with! I'am a male Aspie! What I suffer from is this Nuerotypical society this imperfect world that the majority of it's population is NTP Nuerotypical people. They cause more harm than good! Always changing thing's, they don't care how you feel or how the change effects you, as long as they get what they want. They call us crazy! I have an eidetic memory and an IQ. of 170. I'm not crazy, I was tested. And I suffer from being tired of a Nuerotypical society that could careless about anyone not like them.

Anonymous said...

My name is Ernie Young de Herrera... I don't suffer from Something I was born with! I'am a male Aspie! What I suffer from is this Nuerotypical society this imperfect world that the majority of it's population is NTP Nuerotypical people. They cause more harm than good! Always changing thing's, they don't care how you feel or how the change effects you, as long as they get what they want. They call us crazy! I have an eidetic memory and an IQ. of 170. I'm not crazy, I was tested. And I suffer from being tired of a Nuerotypical society that could careless about anyone not like them.

Anonymous said...

I am so frustrated that I cannot find anything about this: I was imprisoned and abused by my Aspergers Boyfriend (I have now left him and escaped). At first I thought he was just awkward and sweet and I had always been tols that people with ASD are not violent. But he would OFTEn have "meltdowns" like the sort you see on psych videos of low-functioning autistic children. He would not try to restrain himself, never learned how and didn't want to. If he was "triggered" to have a meltdown it was always my fault even if I could never have anticipated the trigger, not even a psychic could. He would have daily meltdowns about things I couldn't even understand. I tried to follow all his OCD rules and guess at what things would give him a meltdown--but it could be something as obscure as that a random circumstance reminded him of something unpleasant from years ago. He would hit himself, bang his head into the wall (once he even broke his own nose). All I could do would be try to physically restrain him. He was much bigger than me so I would try to get into a position where I could sit on him to stop him from breaking my things (like things my dead mother had give me, which he would trow and smash) or harming himself. He punched through walls, bruised his hands, hit himself in the face. If I tried to get to the phone or call the police it would just get worse. He would run after me shrieking like an insane person and star hitting me. He would hit and kick at random sometimes for hours and hours. He had no end to energy while I would be exhausted. Sometimes he would keep me awake for 24-48 hrs while he was in his mind "looping" as he called it, but if I made noise or tried to leave the house or begged to go to sleep or to be able to go get food or water he would start having a "meltdown". Every little thing had to be his way (even things I could not anticipate) or it would trigger this behavior. It seems to me he had lousy parents who never dealt with his Autism. But he would not get help for it either saying he didn't want to be "labeled" by a psychiatrist and that if NT people would just "comply" with his neuroticisms then everything would be fine. It was always seen as my fault when he would have a "meltdown" and if he broke things or hurt me or himself he would demand that I "fix" it or pay for it immediately so he didn't have to "look at" the damage. When he broke my fingers, beat me to the point of limping, his me in the ear givving me tinnitus, I had to pretend I was fine or he would start "melting down" again. Every forum I go on says that people with AS disorder are "not violent" and that I am being "prejudiced" but surely others have had this experience? If children with AS can't be controlled and will hit and kick without any concern for others then why do we think everyone outgrows this. Let me tell you a 200lb man having a "meltdown" who never learned restraint is a n ugly thing. I don't understand--I can't be the only person to have had an experience like this. I know not everyone with ASD is like this, but my experience can't be the only one?

Anonymous said...

What can I do for an A who will not seek his benefits, be diagnosed, and can't get a job? Just leave him?

Ricky Moore II said...

I have been dealing with undiagnosed (a combination of incompetence and a lack of resources) Aspergers, and 'meltdowns' have been a persistent part of my life. At this point it is not realistic for me to be employed or socially acceptable in general, and the constant pressure to be so anyway directly leads to these meltdowns and a worsening of the situation.

I am presently ready to commit suicide because social services and my family both feel unwilling or unable to provide me with any assistance, and my executive and emotional issues make me unable to manage the complex and confrontational process necessary to even have a chance of getting services. It is virtually impossible to find anyone willing or able to offer assistance, psychiatric hospitals and Vocational Rehabilitation proved of NO USE WHATSOEVER. Right now my options seem to be homelessness and suicide, therapy and psychiatric medications are having a negative effect if any.

Gavin Bollard said...

Ricky,

You only get one shot at life and that's it (depending on your religious views).

Even if you do believe in a "glorious afterlife", many religions make it clear that suicide does not result in you going to a good place.

Suicides fail quite frequently and can leave you in a much worse state than before - effectively rendering another attempt impossible while ensuring that your quality of life decreases significantly.

In short, suicide is not the answer. It never is.

I'm not sure where you reside but there has to be some kind of support that you're eligible for. You'll also need to put in a lot of effort yourself.

If you're feeling really suicidal, please contact your local telephone support services. They can help.

beautyiseverywhere said...

My aspie roomie shows no emotions at all...never gets angry or too happy either for that matter. He says, deadpan serious...that he has never hurt anyone and no one has ever hurt him.

I had to read 3/4 the way through all these posts to even figure out WHO everyone was talking about. But I'll tell u this.....aspergers means no emotions....and instead, their partners can get driven to a meltdown just trying to get some cooperative behavior from them...or some responsiveness. And I know I can "just leave" cause we are not married. Trouble is he will have no other caretaker so I am stuck here. And after having searched for years for any kind of caretaker support, I have given up. There is none. There is also apparently no "therapy" for aspie adults. They are here to try our souls, and I for one am hanging by a fraying thread for the trying.