tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post1848693327424091985..comments2024-03-19T08:40:36.481+11:00Comments on Life with Aspergers: Improving Employment Prospects for Aspies - Part 2 (What the Aspie can do)Gavin Bollardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13833941398375568706noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-73631691543955814962015-01-22T03:14:38.475+11:002015-01-22T03:14:38.475+11:00I respectfully disagree. I joined the Air Force a...I respectfully disagree. I joined the Air Force after 3 years of college. I was growing exceedingly bored with theory theory theory and not enough practice. The practice helped me land a very good job once I completed my degree and set me way ahead of others who were pure school and no practice. I also went to school at my very own pace, knowing my limitations. It took me 10 years to get my bachelors. But when I got it I was leaps and bounds ahead of the curve than someone at the same level. Part of what helped me was that I was, contrary to the advice given here, I was very choosy with my first job. <br /><br />I followed my grandfather's advice when joining the Air Force. I did extreme well in the placement and aptitude tests. But they wanted to make me a truck driver or security police. I told them that I wouldn't raise my right hand until they got back to me with a slot in Space Communications. They knew how to find me. I went back to electronics engineering school and four months later they got back to me with a slot and, as per my grandfather, I made sure that it was on paper before I signed in. I've seen too many people get stuck in a rut and typecast as the truck driver, security police or kitchen duty, all with a recruiter's broken promise that they could change specialities later but never could. My grandfather warned me about that too. He was right. And that's how I got into my speciality. I don't regret it. But I agree with Gavin that work/school is the best route, as long as you strike the proper balance, and go at your own pace, as I did, as long as you're perseverationsl about actually finishing school. Don't give up! ;-D eventually, when you least expect it, you'll be wearing that cap'n gown. -& you'll be that much more employable for it. Miguel Palaciohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02311154354365423829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-65540608482125612262015-01-22T02:58:47.120+11:002015-01-22T02:58:47.120+11:00I believe that Gavin graduated with honours from t...I believe that Gavin graduated with honours from the school of hard knocks and that's why he's learned all this office bollutix. Miguel Palaciohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02311154354365423829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-47548359263709382912015-01-22T02:56:24.952+11:002015-01-22T02:56:24.952+11:00Displaying contempt can be as subtle as in ones mi...Displaying contempt can be as subtle as in ones micro-grimace or snarl or eye expression. These are things that many of us as Aspies are very unaware. Many of us find it hard to lie on top of that, or hide our disgust at something. Unaware, we may be emitting all sorts of micro-expressions that indicate our contempt, without outwardly meaning to do so. In such circumstances, when we perceive injustice, others might read us like a book and we might not even know it. And that's despite what many say that we are emotionless. Miguel Palaciohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02311154354365423829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-75588214513746709522014-07-07T16:31:40.126+10:002014-07-07T16:31:40.126+10:00Talented workforce today is the key differentiator...Talented workforce today is the key differentiator that separates outstanding companies from the mediocre. recruitment agencies in singapore employment agencies in singaporeRecruitment Agencies in Singaporehttp://www.tbchr.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-24568815819403306492014-01-10T00:19:15.967+11:002014-01-10T00:19:15.967+11:00Thanks for this Gavin. I am sitting here looking a...Thanks for this Gavin. I am sitting here looking at a potential career move from one thing I like to do, but is becoming frustrating, due to process and industry changes, into something that I love to do, but I'm not very good at, and it will help people, which is satisfying in and of itself.Dave Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16350963801088652480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-53543558149490166152013-05-28T02:00:11.094+10:002013-05-28T02:00:11.094+10:00I have to disagree about the "part time"...I have to disagree about the "part time" advice while going to school. Aspies have EPIC problems with multitasking and executive functioning. I can't even *fathom* most Aspies being able to successfully juggle work and school for years, without having one go down in flames at the expense of the other (read: procrastinating one's studies all semester due to work demands, then getting fired during the final 2 weeks of classes because all of his attention then turns to the crisis of "avoid failing one or more classes for the semester".<br /><br />In America, it's basically impossible for Aspies to get the kind of jobs we'll succeed in without a 4-year degree in *something*. It doesn't really matter what the degree is in, but lacking it as a checklist item will lead to a lifetime of disqualification by HR Departments.<br /><br />An Aspie who graduates with a Master's degree (or PhD) and no practical work experience might be disadvantaged, but an Aspie who applies for a job without having a 4-year degree (or at least being IN school at the time... an excuse that won't work forever...) will get doors automatically slammed in his face for the rest of his life. And at the end of the day, is an Aspie who graduates with a history of getting fired really in a better position than an Aspie who graduates with no employment history at all?<br /><br />IMHO, Aspies *need* to go go school full time, and *need* to live on campus... at least a hundred miles away from where their parents live. Preferably, in a dorm where they can have their own room where they can retreat at will, but have a small common area that's exclusive to a few (where they can hang out with their laptop if they feel like socializing by osmosis).<br /><br />If they remain at home, college turns into "high school, part II", and it's easy for the Aspie young adult to just tire of chafing constantly with his parents over everything & quit.<br /><br />If they go away to school and live off campus, they'll get overwhelmed by things like shopping for major appliances and furniture (spending weeks researching refrigerator features, agonizing over them, visiting every store within 50 miles, etc). I spent the first month of my senior year (when I moved off-campus) shopping for the perfect COFFEE TABLE. And it just got worse from there...<br /><br />Living on campus, they're in just about the best Aspie support system possible... surrounded by fellow Aspies, with most of their daily housekeeping problems solved for them, in an environment where they can casually pick and choose social interaction like food at a buffet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-31057809111840254812012-04-25T10:43:40.089+10:002012-04-25T10:43:40.089+10:00I'm making a jugdment about you basied on your...I'm making a jugdment about you basied on your comments, sorry if I offend, but you dont seem to get it. From an NT thought those jobs aren't "fake", but from a black and white, justice or injustice, those jobs are fake. They are reserved for someone. Thats unjust. Therefore its fake. As to an Aspi's oppinon of co-workers, its not baised or low. It's spot on. Apis' freak their co-workers out. They are often seen as "the weird guy who wont stop talking about computers" or that guy who's always "showing off". An Aspi can quickly become issolated, avoded and ignored because they make NT's uncomfortable in a wide range of ways. This is how it is for my boyfrind. He wants to interact and makes friends. He thinks the world of the people he works with but they end up shunning him. He never looks down on them. He never holds them in contempt. They are just on different pages.Stephihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15426537560550011513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-88509594577429588652010-09-10T23:04:19.826+10:002010-09-10T23:04:19.826+10:00Sounds like you have sussed out work politics - so...Sounds like you have sussed out work politics - something Aspies are typically blind to. I feel into the overqualified trap and never reached my career potential. Only when my son was diagnosed with AS, that I learned I had AS too, and that was why I had such difficult experiences in employment.Baileyhttp://hubpages.com/profile/Baileybearnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-25270037161950219952010-07-24T20:31:15.158+10:002010-07-24T20:31:15.158+10:00Lisa,
My comment was definitely not meant as an a...Lisa,<br /><br />My comment was definitely not meant as an attack. It wasn't meant as a lecture (though I can see how it could be construed that way). It was meant to provide information that isn't obvious to some people. No superiority or harm was intended.<br /><br />Expressing contempt in a working relationship is an effective way to make the working situation unbearable. Respecting others for who they are and what they do is a big step in curtailing contempt.<br /><br />Along the lines of Gavin's previous post about not using Asperger's to excuse bad behavior, being socially challenged does not excuse displaying contempt for your co-workers and expecting them to just take it in stride.Stephaniehttp://embracingchaos.stephanieallencrist.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-15687857254854244612010-07-22T19:05:02.819+10:002010-07-22T19:05:02.819+10:00Stephanie, I feel bad about hijacking poor Gavin&#...Stephanie, I feel bad about hijacking poor Gavin's blog, but I have one more thing to say:<br /><br />The first time I read your comments I read them as an attack.<br />The second time I read your comments I read them as a lecture.<br />The third time I read your comments and mine, I see the many and varied pitfalls (and wonders) of communication.Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15204296607647235533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-43537119654196419792010-07-21T23:07:11.847+10:002010-07-21T23:07:11.847+10:00I second what Caitlin said!I second what Caitlin said!Just another Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11055286051125648905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-7387511944578028702010-07-21T22:03:36.669+10:002010-07-21T22:03:36.669+10:00Lisa,
"But... if you know it all..."
O...Lisa,<br /><br />"But... if you know it all..."<br /><br />Okay, first, you <b>don't</b> know it all. Nobody does. You probably don't even know "it all" about your specialized field. Second, in an organization there is more going on than whatever your job is. Say you're an IT professional and your boss isn't. Your job is, essentially, to know and do the IT stuff, so that your boss can do other things for the organization. In that sense, "knowing it all" would be knowing about all the different activities in the organization, how they fit together, and how you can improve the functioning of the organization by doing your job better than anyone can tell you how to do it. Knowing the present and future needs of the organization proceeds knowing how to do your job the best it can be done.<br /><br />" and can't resist sharing what you know, enthusiastically and unstoppably,"<br /><br />Resisting this urge can be very difficult, but as far as job skills goes it's something to work on. Keeping the bigger picture in mind helps--both in the sense that the entire organization isn't "about" your particular job and in the sense that many people prioritize their private lives more highly than their professional lives.<br /><br />Sometimes the reasons things aren't being done the way you'd recommend aren't logical or sound (bad organization, bad management). Sometimes there are reasons you might not understand, because you're not looking at the big picture (good organization, good management). And sometimes what you want for your position just isn't a priority for the organization.<br /><br />"and aren't particularly good at picking up on social cues, or knowing just the right words to use, it's all too easy to 'appear' contemptuous."<br /><br />Again, by understanding that's how you appear and that it makes your life and the lives of your co-workers more difficult than it has to be, you can adjust the situation. If you cannot adjust your behavior, then at least be upfront about the difficulty.<br /><br />"Or, if you do feel contempt for you co-workers (which I'm sure everyone does sometimes), you may not be particularly great at hiding it."<br /><br />And that's a problem. Whether the contempt is felt or if your behavior is misinterpretted, co-workers are not going to work well with you if they feel you have contempt for them. It's human nature.<br /><br />Furthermore, by having contempt for someone, you are disrespecting who that person is. Demanding equal treatment, fair treatment, or accommodations when you feel you're better than other people is hypocritical. They have to adjust to and respect your Autism/Asperger's, but you don't have to adjust to or respect their priorities, strengths, and weaknesses?Stephaniehttp://embracingchaos.stephanieallencrist.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-2777388315608318902010-07-21T12:09:20.087+10:002010-07-21T12:09:20.087+10:00Gavin, have you considered compiling your blog pos...Gavin, have you considered compiling your blog posts, especially those aimed at giving insider tips and insights into Aspie life, into a book? I know blogger has a feature that allows you to do this, and you could sell them yourself via your blog... <br /><br />I think you would have a lot of buyers. Myself included. Seriously. :)<br /><br />Caitlin<br />www.welcome-to-normal.comCaitlin Wrayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06683662224096157734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-3529275412241114392010-07-21T08:59:57.418+10:002010-07-21T08:59:57.418+10:00There are great points made in this post. I'm...There are great points made in this post. I'm an NT with some Aspie traits, and I have definitely learned useful tips after reading this. Thank you for writing it!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-27335036648535932152010-07-21T03:40:06.978+10:002010-07-21T03:40:06.978+10:00Gavin, you were spot on with "Fake Jobs"...Gavin, you were spot on with "Fake Jobs". I have seen this first hand in School Districts, and the Hospital that I worked at time and time again. Before a position is even posted the manager has someone either in-house or out in mind for the job. Yes, as a poster commented it is an expensive and time consuming process to post a job and do all the interviewing etc., but a manager that is doing the hiring is not footing the bill. It's not right, you can only imagine my shock at the dishonesty that occurs in the work place being a black and white thinker myself. "Dragon" person, lol...I've personally known too many. Yep, insecurities abound in the work place, too true. Being over qualified..my mother was actually told in an interview that she will have a very hard time finding work because she will most likely be over qualified and that is not attractive to an employer. The thinking is that as soon as something better comes along the over qualified employee will move on to greener pastures. If they are just qualified or barley qualified for a job they are more likely to be a long term employee. She had to dumb her resume down to get a job. I agree with your advice in getting some job experience under your belt. As a former manager, I cared more about actual work experience and dependability as most people can be trained,then I did about tons of education. Highly educated people often times do come off as know-it-alls and that is a huge turn off to an insecure person be it a co-worker at your same level or higher. We are human...with that comes a whole multitude of flaws. I found every word of this post to be accurate and potentially very useful to the Aspie that is already in the work place or will soon be. Thank you for doing this series!Just another Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11055286051125648905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-12497830697299084812010-07-20T16:54:14.924+10:002010-07-20T16:54:14.924+10:00@ Stephanie
But... if you know it all, and can'...@ Stephanie<br />But... if you know it all, and can't resist sharing what you know, enthusiastically and unstoppably, and aren't particularly good at picking up on social cues, or knowing just the right words to use, it's all too easy to 'appear' contemptuous.<br />Or, if you do feel contempt for you co-workers (which I'm sure everyone does sometimes), you may not be particularly great at hiding it.Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15204296607647235533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-91376327219394036202010-07-20T14:18:09.410+10:002010-07-20T14:18:09.410+10:00Your observations regarding people being threatene...Your observations regarding people being threatened by your, um, dedication were also interesting, but come across as somewhat biased. Your statements suggest you have a very low opinion of your co-workers and supervisors. That attitude tends to show in people's behavior and that will affect your relationships with co-workers and supervisors all by itself--they don't need to feel threatened by your knowledge to be offended by your contempt for them.Stephaniehttp://embracingchaos.stephanieallencrist.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-39285521283435201812010-07-20T14:14:15.111+10:002010-07-20T14:14:15.111+10:00You have some interesting recommendations and an i...You have some interesting recommendations and an interesting perspective.<br /><br />Consider your comments on "fake jobs," for example. These positions may be only vaguely open--but the jobs aren't fake. It also seems unlikely that the scenario you've described is as frequent as you suspect. Hiring people--the process of getting resumes, perusing them, interviewing candidates, ect.--is very expensive. A moderately well-run business wants to avoid that expense, especially if they already have a candidate in mind. If a business is doing this, it's a clear sign of unethical behavior and the business would not make for a good employer.<br /><br />On the other hand, your advice not to take being passed over as a blow to your ego is spot on. Especially in the current employment climate in the U.S. many positions are 100 to 1 or higher, meaning that there are at least 100 applicants to every open position. This means 99 people are going to be passed over, and some of them will be equally qualified for the position. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with prejudice or how you came off during an interview. It's a numbers game and the numbers are in the employers' favor.<br /><br />In specialty fields this will be lower, but it's still higher now than usual. And I've heard of some positions where the ratio is closer to 1,000 to 1.<br /><br />I disagree with the limits you placed on education--some fields require Master's degrees just to enter the field. Some require doctorates to actually practice in the field. On the other hand, I agree wholly with the importance of work. Internships and work-study programs are a great middle ground. You get work experience, and you might even get a valuable supplement to your education.Stephaniehttp://embracingchaos.stephanieallencrist.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-1993470456439226382010-07-20T10:18:03.505+10:002010-07-20T10:18:03.505+10:00I wanted to comment on the "be less picky&quo...I wanted to comment on the "be less picky" and "choose suitable" and ALSO "it's who you know" parts of your post.<br /><br />When I graduated high school and needed a part time job while attending university, I didn't know about my asperger's. But I DID know that I had serious problems with social interaction (the worst was getting too overwhelmed too easily). I decided to get a job at the mall to force myself to learn. I both regret and am glad that I did so - I regret it, because it was really stressful and I had far too many meltdowns and problems, but I was lucky that my managers understood that I couldn't work on the busiest days (particularly after I started shutting down in the middle of the store the day after Christmas and couldn't do anything but wring my hands together and sob!). I also did learn a lot about interacting with the public and the tendency towards learning everything about something helped a lot with selling clothes. I was there 6 years, which was too long, and mostly because I was afraid of change.<br /><br />When I quit that job, mostly because the new manager didn't seem to like me and was basically cutting my hours instead of firing me, I decided I'd never work in a job that dealt with the public again. But! My current job is as a receptionist as a museum, and I love it *so* much - I even really love that I'm dealing with the public all day. I think that if I hadn't worked in the mall, I wouldn't be able to do this job. And the only reason I even have it (since I wouldn't have sought it myself) is that the hiring manager is my mom's friend and told me about the vacancy when I was really desperate for work...<br /><br />I still find loads of people to be too much to handle, but the regular stream of patrons at my museum is a lot lower than my meltdown point, and again, my tendency to be really enthusiastic about sharing information is a great asset - I truly love the museum, and I love my city, so I naturally have learned a lot of things to share with visitors, should they ask. In fact, if I could get a living wage from it, I would gladly continue doing this indefinitely. As it is, I'm only doing it until I can move to another state to work on my graduate degree (which will allow me to work as a museum curator).<br /><br />So, related to your post, I think the be less picky is really important, because it's possible that it'll lead you to a job you hadn't considered as being good. Also, it'll give you experience to know your limits, and maybe let you expand those limits through acclimation, so that you can do more. It'll also make it possible to find a suitable job, which might be unexpected (no one in my family thought receptionisting would be a good fit for me, until I started at the museum - I only applied out of desperation, thinking at the very least, it would be temporary until I found something better). Also, asking your family and friends to pass on info about jobs is a really good way to find one - especially since these days, a lot of them don't get advertised publicly, because of so many applicants.<br /><br />(I'm really upset that in order to do my graduate courses on-campus, I'm going to have to quit my job. It's only 3 days a week, but it's the best job I've ever had!)Kerihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03748531875850601296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-89906001451095390022010-07-20T08:37:05.138+10:002010-07-20T08:37:05.138+10:00Woot, Gavin! Thank you from the parent of an aspie...Woot, Gavin! Thank you from the parent of an aspie boy just heading into his final semester of high school. <br />Chemistry is his special interest, and research reports his special weakness...Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15204296607647235533noreply@blogger.com