tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post6463123867518609327..comments2024-03-19T08:40:36.481+11:00Comments on Life with Aspergers: The Aspie and EmpathyGavin Bollardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13833941398375568706noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-31472581041621979882022-04-21T07:16:06.816+10:002022-04-21T07:16:06.816+10:00Kaitlyn's post struck yet another bell in my h...Kaitlyn's post struck yet another bell in my head. I even apologize for being pedantic in discussions when all I'm really trying to do is focus on someone else's problem and cut to the core. The usual response from others not like me is a combination of strawman attacks and transforming objectivity into a personal attack which is a total misunderstanding (!!) of my trying to empathize/help. Guess why I've come to hate others coming to me to fix problems they can't fix for themselves. I've had a professional career of fixing problems for others, often caused by themselves and am over it. I'm supposed to enjoy what life I have left in retirement and yet feel besieged. It's like they don't want to know me until they have a problem and then suddenly it's all on. MWnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-45873633374022576552022-04-21T06:59:20.817+10:002022-04-21T06:59:20.817+10:00Hah! Empathy? I have begun to wonder whether it is...Hah! Empathy? I have begun to wonder whether it is me who is writing your blog topics. Talk about self-discovery!<br /><br />Re programming - we used to call it "playing computer". To this day that and thorough specification of a program's complete function is the only way I can write bullet-proof programs (principally firmware for specific microcontroller-based projects). I am an assembly-language fan to the death. And I "grew up" with Warnier-Orr diagramatic planning.MWnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-83480063717275124782017-11-03T11:00:25.150+11:002017-11-03T11:00:25.150+11:00In aspergers, empathy doesn't just mean "...<i>In aspergers, empathy doesn't just mean "put yourself in my shoes" it means "become me", "feel as I feel" and "see as I see".</i><br />In other words: self-centered.<br /><br />In my experience Aspergic people are unable to process the idea of 2nd person singular, to use a grammatical term, i.e. 'thou'. So other people with whom they are associated are part of the 2nd person plural 'you' or part of the 1st person 'we' should the other person be a 'significant other'.<br /><br />In regard to the former the concept of empathy does not apply for an Aspergic person, nor neurotypical either for that matter. However for a neurotypical person a 'significant other' is recognised to be referred to as 'thou' meaning the speaker acknowledges that person is an entity in their own right with personal boundaries to be respected and that other person mutually recognises the converse, each separate but in a relationship as 'we'.<br /><br />Aspergic persons on the other hand cannot grasp this and conflate 'I' and 'Thou' into 'We' and then may become bossy control freaks should the other neurotypical person gently flag that they are their own 'I' and need their boundaries respected. The neurotypical person will gently flag this requirement using non-verbal communication which goes unrecognised by the Aspergic person more often than not which makes the situation worse. That is why the advice is to let the Aspergic person know in no uncertain terms that the boundary trangression behaviours are not acceptable.MrCombustionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02525056289664743014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-23351349632679129832017-02-13T12:50:33.906+11:002017-02-13T12:50:33.906+11:00Aspergers isn't a problem of too little empath...Aspergers isn't a problem of too little empathy but actually too much, most people are unaware of this. People with Aspergers just show empathy more slowly and differently. Corehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16649856060656410603noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-57622827231176741452017-02-13T12:44:45.566+11:002017-02-13T12:44:45.566+11:00Give your kid a break, trust me, all those "i...Give your kid a break, trust me, all those "intervention" people will do is cause him harm. Normal doesn't even exist, in my opinion you aren't normal, but everyone has their own opinion of normal. I know I'm being rude, but I have been through hell, because I had an intervention when I was younger. Also even if you are doing on intervention don't get any information from Autism Speaks, it is a hate group. Anyway that's all I have to say, it's not like I can actually control you, I don't really feel like explaing the torture I have been through either. Corehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16649856060656410603noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-42719803168539310002015-02-28T12:07:14.256+11:002015-02-28T12:07:14.256+11:00I really resonate with your comment as I suspect m...I really resonate with your comment as I suspect my husband is an aspie.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-73036623072426120102014-05-20T11:36:39.472+10:002014-05-20T11:36:39.472+10:00I've been reading up on Aspergers and Empathy ...I've been reading up on Aspergers and Empathy and have found a lot of angry comments from spouses saying that their Aspy Partners are bad and should feel bad but can't cause they're bad. <br /><br />It makes me wonder why they're married if they hate them so much. Also just so you know your acknowledgement of any kind of psychological difference between males and females rankles at my sense of morality. THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME DAMNIT!!! GRRR! There is no difference or if there is a difference it's so minute as to be unimportant and the rest is just societal conditioning kay? Kay. Glad we had this talk ^^ Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-67501748553969254842013-02-23T16:31:02.155+11:002013-02-23T16:31:02.155+11:00I work for a woman who I believe has Asperger'...I work for a woman who I believe has Asperger's, but I'm not sure she knows it (her child has recently been diagnosed with it though). I have been reading about AS for weeks now, and there is not an ounce of doubt in my mind that my boss has it. I'm really glad to have come across this blog where there is such a wide variety of people who either have AS or don't, or have a friend/relative who has it. I'm hoping I can get some answers from you.<br /><br />I've read numerous articles about how Aspies can come off as rude and mean when in actuality they don't mean to be. My boss seems to lack empathy in some situations (ie. I was in a bad car accident and she never once asked me how I was doing, if I needed the rest of the day off, etc.), and then feels extreme empathy for other things (ie. people who have very mild anxiety or depression). I can appreciate that it's normal not to be able to completely understand how someone feels if we haven't been through the same things ourselves. But, myy question is, how can the rest of us recognize if people with AS coming off as rude is really them being rude, or if it's just them not being able to express themselves more empathetically? Sometimes my boss does or says something so outrageously inappropriate and blunt that I can't help but wonder if she really is just one mean, selfish person. <br /><br />Every day when we have lunch she goes on and on about herself, tells me every detail about her weekend, what her children did, how she cleaned her kitchen, or starts listing all the appliances she has in her house. After 10-15 minutes I feel completely exhausted, and after a year of working for her, I am out of questions to ask her about her stories in order to have a conversation with her, and not just listen to a very monotonous monologue. Of course, she does not at all notice my lack of interest in her stories, and the fact that I'm not even listening to her anymore (ie. I'm be playing with my phone and she's still talking in the same tone of voice). Deep down, I know that she's a good and compassionate person, and so I'd really like to connect more with her.<br /><br />If she were a friend or a co-worker, I think I would find the courage to mention Asperger's and ask her if she ever thought that she too, like her child, might have it. But, since she's my boss (and a doctor herself) I dare not say anything. I am actively looking for another job, but I would rather face the problem than run away from it. I have also found that she does listen when someone is talking, but interrupts the other person a lot (makes it difficult for us to have a dialogue and for me to finish my sentences), and is not at all good with confrontation. She sulks a lot if you hurt her feelings even a little and doesn't really know how to defend herself. So I'm afraid that if I say anything to her, even in the nicest way possible, she will feel so deeply hurt and disappointed, and I will not be able to live with myself later.<br /><br />Maybe I've rambled on too much here, but I AM DESPERATE for help. I'll be grateful for any piece of advice.<br />Thank you all.<br />P.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-4204930457623577062012-12-16T05:34:32.163+11:002012-12-16T05:34:32.163+11:00Thankyou so much for your personal insight. My 11 ...Thankyou so much for your personal insight. My 11 yr old grandson is becoming more and more agitated about the classroom expectations of him to have feelings about differing subjects, especially when he has to empathize with other's pain or sorrow. He is newly diagnosed with AS and hasn't begun any formal therapy to help him with social cues and social behaviors. As he struggles and relays information to others he appears to be socialpathic in his seeming lack of feelings for other's emotional pain. However blatent injuries to the body, or extream emotional pain he steps right up to the plate with understanding and encouragement. Animals are another thing altogether. He is imediately defensive, protective and understanding of any slight pain or discomfort he sees with his dogs. We are all looking forward to him getting help to "fit in" only because it causes him so much distress to feel so out of place and "different"..also "bullied" as he puts it, in his school setting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-85460708919036027432012-08-29T21:18:08.337+10:002012-08-29T21:18:08.337+10:00Caitlin (nice name, by the way)-
As to learning t...Caitlin (nice name, by the way)-<br /><br />As to learning to empathize "in the moment", I don't think that's possible. Reading your story with your husband, it reminded me of arguments I've had with my boyfriend (except I'm the Aspie in this situation.) I can say that if an argument started from a semantic misunderstanding, it makes sense to us Aspies to focus on that one detail. That detail is what made the argument in the first place, therefore, we see it as the most important aspect. We're used to being misunderstood on a regular basis. We often have to clarify what we mean, since even though we talk in a straightforward way, others tend to assume there is something else to it. Sometimes they think our literal or blunt words mean we're trying to be sarcastic, when we're actually being completely serious. A lot of times we're unaware of how our tone of voice is conveyed, and people assume we're angry when we're really content. It's a bit difficult to explain, but you can search for "Asperger's verify and clarify" to get more info. Long story short, the exact words that are used mean a lot to us. If another person said one thing but meant something else, and we took what they said at face-value, we feel that we were in the right. If something went wrong because the other person didn't want to just communicate what they meant and an argument started up from it, there could be either (or both) of the following happening- 1) The Aspie doesn't see that you are getting upset, and/or 2) They don't understand WHY you're getting upset. It's irrational for someone to get upset at another person over a misunderstanding that was their own cause. Therefore, we don't understand why it would hurt you. Only afterwards, when we see the eventual aftermath, might we realize that something went wrong. If I caused my boyfriend to be upset after an argument, my response would depend on which of the above two cases was happening. If I simply hadn't realized I hurt him, then I feel really bad and I try to comfort him. If, however, he started the issue in the first place, I'm much less sympathetic. I'm more likely to go to another room by myself and wait for us both to calm down. I then expect an apology. Lacking one, however, we eventually return to our normal life anyway... Just because some things are too silly to keep a grudge over.Kaitlynnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-10302195124461809692012-07-20T01:25:09.630+10:002012-07-20T01:25:09.630+10:00My husband is an Aspie- while a situation is happe...My husband is an Aspie- while a situation is happening he can't empathize with the emotion I'm having, and focuses solely on the words, arguing semantics, etc. Later once I'm REALLY upset, he can all of a sudden empathize with the emotion. So it's just like you said. <br /><br />Question- IYO, can an Aspie learn to empathize 'in the moment', rather than way later, when often times the damage is done? Or is this dependent on where he is in the spectrum?Caitlin Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07442473825782805158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-14020912101290375472012-03-07T21:33:17.268+11:002012-03-07T21:33:17.268+11:00i have often wondered about this former friend of ...i have often wondered about this former friend of mine if she was an "aspie." there were so many times that i was frustrated with her total lack of empathy that i thought her to be a selfish b-ch. i finally had to ditch her as a friend a year ago because it was not in her to say sorry even when she was wrong. it hurt me a great deal. it hurt me because i had invested so many years on a selfish witch who did not know the meaning of friendship. but now i wonder...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-18669691813037587612012-01-13T13:08:48.406+11:002012-01-13T13:08:48.406+11:00i am also professionally involved with computer pr...i am also professionally involved with computer programming... and i too 'put myself in the computer's shoes' to figure something out... it's definitely more gift than curse :)rekallhttp://actualmusic.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-22237763118529476452011-08-24T10:26:07.156+10:002011-08-24T10:26:07.156+10:00I live with this conflict every day. Your post is ...I live with this conflict every day. Your post is impossibly accurate. Thank you!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04213096990080747274noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-86810130838214456392011-07-29T11:31:56.004+10:002011-07-29T11:31:56.004+10:00Lately I've been thinking I have demonstrated ...Lately I've been thinking I have demonstrated symptoms of Aspergers. I started researching it after watching "Alphas" on syfy. One character is high functioning autistic, and some of the mannerisms he portrays were kind of familiar. Most of the symptoms and signs fit, except for the lack of empathy. I'm in college studying to be a social worker, and the 'lack of empathy' doesn't meld with that. Your post really helped me to wrap my head around what I've been feeling. I've been told countless times that "You can't help them any more" or "You're too emotionally involved". This post was so helpful. Thank you!Kaceyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14261977787809033858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-27183815334038445812011-07-11T10:47:01.005+10:002011-07-11T10:47:01.005+10:00I am 27 years old and was recently diagnosed with ...I am 27 years old and was recently diagnosed with Aspergers. I completely agree with you that Aspies don't lack empathy we just don't always recognize when it's needed. Personally, I find emotions to be quite intense it's like a radio with only two modes full blast or totally off. So when other people's emotions are especially strong, it overloads me and I tend to shut down which can look like I don't care. But that's not the case at all. It's as if I care too much and can't deal with it. I have done a lot of reading on body language so I have learned to recognize expressions and non-verbal communication better but it still takes more intent than intuition. Thanks for your post. I found it very insightful!Christina R.http://www.iaminbetween.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-80213041514951542472011-04-15T11:06:45.146+10:002011-04-15T11:06:45.146+10:00I also just came across this blog as I was Googlin...I also just came across this blog as I was Googling Asperger's and Empathy. I have recently begun to research Aspergers as it relates to myself, and am finding that I am very possibly an Aspie. As I do not have anyone in my life I can discuss this with, the internet has become my research partner. Although I have many many similarities with the Aspie traits, I do happen to be very empathetic. Socially I am a total loser, but I am an ER nurse, so empathy is actually my job! Sometimes I feel empathy so fiercly that it's almost physically painful. At work I am easily able to distance myself from the emotional tangles of reviving someone, working a code, or putting a little baby through the stress of recieving an IV or staples or some such painful and terrifying procedure, but I frequently have problems making friends or having emotionally "deep" discussions because although I know how I feel, I just can't express it in words! I am so glad to have this outlook on Aspergers and empathy. I have always felt like a fish out of water, like there was something wrong with me, that I was... broken, somehow. It' such a relief to know that there is something 'different' about me, not 'wrong'. Thank you so much for helping me continue to figure myself out!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17140222684860347896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-67602913951195013052011-03-28T17:26:20.514+11:002011-03-28T17:26:20.514+11:00A little background about me - I was diagnosed wit...A little background about me - I was diagnosed with Aspergers at age 15 (11 years ago) while living in a group home. It is entirely possible for an aspie to have empathy, and plenty of it. My problem is that my body language and facial expressions don't adequately convey my thoughts. For example, my girlfriend is upset and she is unable to tell that I'm concerned for her unless I physically go over to her to comfort her. I've always been a very sensitive person. I've been known to cry over the misfortunes of people I don't even know because I, often against my will, feel what I think they might be feeling at the time. Currently I am living with a partner of over 6 years with whom I've fathered a child who is 5 years old. Things are going wonderfully as I've found someone who understands and accepts me and goes well out of her way to accommodate my "aspieness." Although I feel very awkward in public, I have made leaps and bounds since my early teens in consciously trying to emulate "normal" social responses. I still struggle with eye contact - usually trying to establish the line between staring and looking enough to show that I'm interested in what a person is saying to me. There is plenty of room for improvement for people with aspergers with education, family/friend support and most of all - time. Good luck to all of you and best wishes :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-59611572624056543152010-11-07T15:46:21.774+11:002010-11-07T15:46:21.774+11:00Since my Asperger's self-diagnosis at 33 years...Since my Asperger's self-diagnosis at 33 years old (assisted greatly by my wife) I have read many things that made me say "I thought I was the only one". The part in this entry about not relating in an empathetic fashion to people face to face but being brought to tears by (for example) Toy Story is one of those things. Every post that makes me believe that I'm not crazy is a gift, so thank you.MJnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-59573728434309618092010-08-20T14:25:49.686+10:002010-08-20T14:25:49.686+10:00Is it possible for aspies to have selective empath...Is it possible for aspies to have selective empathy? My husband and I are separated and he is about to undergo diagnosis/discovery after a very brief and, for me, painful marriage, and months of denial of any problems relating to him at all. My question is, how come he can notice other women's emotional pain and respond to them very caringly but I am invisible to him, even when plainly distressed, which most often comes as a 'last straw' reaction to his coldness and emotional detachment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-59446393872693290682010-06-18T08:36:46.890+10:002010-06-18T08:36:46.890+10:00Jeanne,
You're doing the right thing by telli...Jeanne,<br /><br />You're doing the right thing by telling him to come by 9.15 but it might be better if you tell him when he has to leave work.<br /><br />I'm hopeless at getting places on time but I'm good if I'm told... "You have to leave the house at 7pm".<br /><br />Set the time accordingly and allow him (without telling him) a little leeway but seriously, you'll probably have to enforce the rules a few times before he gets it. (ie: "Nope, sorry you're too late so can't come in "- or... "no, you<br />have to apologise/get flowers before you can come in".<br /><br />Regarding saying "how are you". He's unlikely to ever "get it". I certainly don't. It's built into my coming home checklist routine now, so I always say "how was your day" to my wife but it's because it's a routine, not because I want to ask it.<br /><br />Just blurt it out. That's what aspies do. That's what he expects you to do. If you've had a hard day, tell him - don't wait for him to notice the signs and ask.Gavin Bollardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13833941398375568706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-58231061160590603602010-06-18T05:38:58.610+10:002010-06-18T05:38:58.610+10:00I have just about had it with my partner who has A...I have just about had it with my partner who has Asperger's. We do not live together but it is a partnership. I have come to realize that I always do the calling, he never calls me and he does not say "How are you?" He likes to visit on Tuesday and Thursday nights and weekends and he started arriving at 10PM TTH. I felt so bad as I sat there and noticed he was coming later and later. He likes to linger at work and listen to politically fired up talk shows and play computer games at the same time. I told him in no uncertain terms the other night to leave when he came at 10PM. I told him to arrive by 9:15 or don't come. I gave him time to play around. My brother said to tell him to at least be there by 8 or 9PM. As it is, I have stopped phoning him at his addictive computer games sessions and I am alone a lot. Too bad.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-20354129390907006822010-06-13T03:45:27.281+10:002010-06-13T03:45:27.281+10:00Thank you for posting this...it has really helped ...Thank you for posting this...it has really helped me to understand this whole issue of empathy and Asperger's. I am pretty sure that my son who is 4 1/2 now has Asperger's. I am in the process now of trying to have him assessed, but have not yet seen a pediatrician. The whole topic of empathy had me confused, because it seems my son is empathetic at times. But, when I think about it now, it is mostly times when there is something very obvious or visible going on...like if my husband and I are arguing, or if I bump my toe and say ouch. But he doesn't necessarily pick up on social cues or emotional cues. If I am having a bad day and I am upset, he doesn't notice at all, he goes about his activity like nothing is wrong, but my older son would notice right away. When my baby daughter cries, my young son doesn't seem to understand why, he just gets mad and says it hurts his ears. But my son does understand what emotions are. He can read faces if we are focusing on it...like if I say, what is this face, and make a sad face, he knows that is a sad face, etc. But he doesn't seem to understand when he hurts someone, like he can't put himself in someone else's shoes...I know he's only 4, but this is a skill that I see other 4 year olds practicing. My son has so many traits and characteristics of Asperger's, but it seems they are milder in nature. He is pretty functional in some areas, he's extremely bright, has been reading since 3 1/2 years old, has incredible rote memory, and such, but can't handle it if you sing a song and miss a word in the song. All this time, I thought he was just being ridiculous, or that his tantrums could be stopped with discipline, or I thought that scolding him into listening or seeing it my way would work...but now I see that I was going about it all wrong, and I just hope I haven't messed things up too much. In any case, I thank you for writing this, because it makes it just a little easier to understand why my son behaves the way he does sometimes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-66707415520714020052010-03-24T15:07:00.897+11:002010-03-24T15:07:00.897+11:00I'm glad to see that your empathy (in regards ...I'm glad to see that your empathy (in regards to the Aspergers) is working. I was wondering on any insights to help develop that. My husband just informed me he is an Aspie, our son is PDD-nos and we have two other daughters. While finding out his being an Aspie answers a LOT of pain (unintentional now that I know) it also gives me lots of questions. How can a marriage work with Aspie's? The difficulties in such an intimate relationship with a person who although excels in other area's lacks so much in my understanding towards others. My husband told me bluntly I have concern for you but no empathy. (it explains why he is upset at most emotions. They annoy his day)Being a woman I am very full of emotions and mostly empathy; the need of. So how (from an aspie to a NT) can I change to help my husband and our marriage? (For any questions yes I thought for some years things were strange but he was very good at hiding a lot, but a person can only hid things for so long, especially from someone so close as a spouse) So now, what can I do to help us?Beccahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01104607225147211935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4841851020927689161.post-70838071462760567922010-02-20T02:45:26.469+11:002010-02-20T02:45:26.469+11:00Thank you for saying that aspies have empathy. My...Thank you for saying that aspies have empathy. My aspie son is very empathetic. He genuinely cares if other people are upset or having troubles but he has difficulties picking up on social cues, usually due to lack of eye contact. When he was little he did not like children fighting and tried to stop fights. Wouldn't it be good if everyone was like that?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com