A few weeks ago, I had an amazing figure of 85% unemployment for aspies left on my blog in comments. I disagreed and decided to put it to the test.
I did a fairly unstructured and not necessarily reliable survey and came up with the following figures;
Survey Results
Of the 90 respondents, 48% were employed in either full-time or part time positions and a further 26% were studying. The remaining 26% was split into 2% housewives/househusbands, 13% not looking for a job and 11% unemployment.
The 11% figure is probably slightly higher than global unemployment figures but isn't significantly higher.
In the graph below, the red areas indicates unemployment, blue indicates employment and green indicates study/school.
It seems obvious to me that the Aspergers condition alone is not sufficient to prevent an individual from obtaining and keeping a job.
What Types of Jobs can Aspies do?
Probably the best thing that an aspie can do is to find work that is either related to their special interest or work which doesn't conflict with too many of the general aspie characteristics. While there is a tendency for aspies to seek jobs in computing and academic fields, there is no reason why aspies cannot be employed in lots of other areas.
Special interest jobs are very good for aspies as they can often be quite innovative and can easily take on leader, designer and developer roles. Unlike their co-workers, aspies often live and breathe their special interests and therefore have a genuine interest in pursing them - rather than simply focusing on the job at hand.
Low Profile jobs are good for aspies with difficult comorbid (associated) conditions or low degrees of social tolerance. Not all aspies need this but some will thrive in closed environments. Programmer and factory roles are often suitable here.
There's also a great answer on Yahoo which talks about Aspergers Employment Strengths and Weaknesses. It's well worth a read.
I've also found some free PDFs on helping aspies gain employment on the Berkshire Autistic Society Web Site.
Some useful books on the Subject
Hawkins, Gail; "How to Find work that works for people with Asperger Syndrome"
Grandin, Temple; Duffy, Kate; Attwood, Tony; "Developing Talents: Careers for Individuals with Asperger Syndrome and High-Functioning Autism"
Meyer, Robert N; Attwood, Tony; "Asperger Syndrome Employment Workbook: An Employment Workbook for Adults With Asperger Syndrome"
If you look at the related books in Amazon, you'll find several other good titles.
I did a fairly unstructured and not necessarily reliable survey and came up with the following figures;
Survey Results
Of the 90 respondents, 48% were employed in either full-time or part time positions and a further 26% were studying. The remaining 26% was split into 2% housewives/househusbands, 13% not looking for a job and 11% unemployment.
The 11% figure is probably slightly higher than global unemployment figures but isn't significantly higher.
In the graph below, the red areas indicates unemployment, blue indicates employment and green indicates study/school.
It seems obvious to me that the Aspergers condition alone is not sufficient to prevent an individual from obtaining and keeping a job.
What Types of Jobs can Aspies do?
Probably the best thing that an aspie can do is to find work that is either related to their special interest or work which doesn't conflict with too many of the general aspie characteristics. While there is a tendency for aspies to seek jobs in computing and academic fields, there is no reason why aspies cannot be employed in lots of other areas.
Special interest jobs are very good for aspies as they can often be quite innovative and can easily take on leader, designer and developer roles. Unlike their co-workers, aspies often live and breathe their special interests and therefore have a genuine interest in pursing them - rather than simply focusing on the job at hand.
Low Profile jobs are good for aspies with difficult comorbid (associated) conditions or low degrees of social tolerance. Not all aspies need this but some will thrive in closed environments. Programmer and factory roles are often suitable here.
There's also a great answer on Yahoo which talks about Aspergers Employment Strengths and Weaknesses. It's well worth a read.
I've also found some free PDFs on helping aspies gain employment on the Berkshire Autistic Society Web Site.
Some useful books on the Subject
Hawkins, Gail; "How to Find work that works for people with Asperger Syndrome"
Grandin, Temple; Duffy, Kate; Attwood, Tony; "Developing Talents: Careers for Individuals with Asperger Syndrome and High-Functioning Autism"
Meyer, Robert N; Attwood, Tony; "Asperger Syndrome Employment Workbook: An Employment Workbook for Adults With Asperger Syndrome"
If you look at the related books in Amazon, you'll find several other good titles.
Comments
I've been directed to some scary British research which has a lot of negative things to say. I'll investigate it and talk about it in a followup post.
He is NOT diagnosed with Asperger's but many of us suspect it, including a professor whose son is aspie.
His research area is immunology and breast-feeding. He tends to stare at women's breasts and he will talk endlessly to people about breast-feeding. Fortunately for him, his wife is a lactation consultant and interested in his research. Unfortunately for him, some students find him "creepy" and inappropriate. It isn't just the intense interest in breasts, it is the general social cluelessness. There are so many things. Like standing too close for too long to a female student when they are alone in a lab. He doesn't notice that she is getting nervous about his intentions and just keeps on talking. This happens a couple of times and then she files a harassment complaint.
He was sent to a training on harassment years ago, but afterwards he did get a little better, but not much.
Like I said, he is not diagnosed with Asperger's and I don't think he would appreciate us telling him that is the problem. He has been accused of sexual harassment one too many times. Well, more like 15 too many times, but he keeps getting more chances because people who know him well think that he "just doesn't get it."
Like I said, he is not diagnosed. His explanation for why this is happening to him is that everyone is intimidated by him because he is so much smarter than the rest of us. That may be part of the issue, of course. Going into another professor's lab to get somethinng and then staying and taking over because she is doing it wrong has not helped his case.
There are some of us who would like to defend him on the grounds that he probably has Asperger's, but I doubt he would welcome such a defense.
I think I should ask you a specific question, but I am not certain what to ask. If you have anything to say about undiagnosed Aspies being accused of harassment, I would be interested in reading it.
Very much true, you need the secret ingredient for that: discrimination!
We need to acknowledge and modify the faulty logic which uses social skills as an ultimate measure of competence and is applied by many employers even in areas where social skills are not needed for doing the job right.
And to veildglory, my husband is one of those who thinks he's underpaid, no matter how much he's making. I'd agree that is a huge factor.
Instead of moving into areas which are unsuitable for me I do two things. First, I've stayed at a troubleshooting level (a highly technical one) which means that I get problems that nobody else can solve. There's no deadline... it's supposed to be immediate or ASAP. It's easier for me to deliver to that kind of schedule.
The other thing that I do is stay away from top-level management issues like project over-runs. Instead I concentrate on delivering quality solutions as fast as I can.
I've only had three full time employers in my twenty years of working life. My first Job lasted seven years, my second, four and my third is still going at nine.
So.. I guess aspies can hold down a job long-term but it has to be the right job.
BTW: I'm always being told that I'm underpaid but realistically, what would I do with lots of extra money anyway?
.I believe even now most so called "normal" people have no Idea what it is and how to treat these good people who Do have the disorder.
I wish It would be taught in School, I think many people would then make less fun of people in general if they Knew the person COULD have the disorder.
.To all you people who DO have it, you are in my Prayers constantly
My trouble has not so much been in keeping the job but rather in interviewing well to get a better job. Companies love me once they see me work my abilities, but communicating the concept during the interview... Oy!
Nobody should have to put up with that - not you, not I, not anyone else either. I'm glad they filed sexual harassment complaints instead of staying silent.
What do you want the students to do instead, use ESP to tell which people sending them creepy signals mean it and which are clueless instead?
If that means you asked people you know or you posted a question online, then there's nothing really scientific at all about the survey and it doesn't debunk the high figures of the NAS study but rather shows that things aren't so bad for the people with Asperger's that you know or for the people with Asperger's who frequent the online place where you posted the survey. Your questioning might even have pulled in many self-diagnosed people and a study at Cambridge has shown that only 20% of those who self-diagnose with Asperger's actually have the condition. So there's a chance that your sample, besides being biased and skewed, consists of a group of people who are, generally speaking, much higher functioning than those diagnosed with Asperger's.
As a very high-functioning person diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome, looking back on my own personal history of unemployment and very brief employment (repeatedly acquiring a job only to lose it within two weeks for reasons unknown and undisclosed to me), I have no difficulty at all believing the NAS statistics. I am very high-functioning but there is just something . . . "not there" and I can't even identify what it is that I'm lacking or where it is that I've gone wrong. It's like a complete blind spot that cripples my life but I can't even begin to remedy because I can't even see where it is.
I'll look to see if you did a later post as you mentioned, looking in to the NAS study. I'd be curious to hear more from you on this topic. I'd also like to know more about the methodology of your informal and unstructured research and what makes you feel it's more trustworthy than the NAS study.
Thanks!
I see that you quoted my own words about my own survey "a fairly unstructured and not necessarily reliable survey".
I don't think that my "off the cuff" research is better than the NAS's multi-million dollar research and I am well aware of the BIAS introduced by doing research on the web. We immediately exclude the lower functioning individuals.
however...
I don't think that the NAS figures are necessarily correct either simply because they exclude the higher functioning individuals.
They exclude the undiagnosed and those who are on the spectrum but are able to hide their issues to an extent which permits them to work.
Two people who are equally autistic may have completely different levels of performance due to environmental factors and their own self esteem. I've often talked about how my additional difficulty (hearing loss) actually gave me access to resources which my aspergers did not. In that sense, I was actually better off than my peers because I was "more disabled".
Both surveys introduce bias - and neither is entirely accurate.
The government will not know about aspergers. Benefits and support is tailored towards physical disabilities and mental disabilities.
Most people with AS have dyspraxia and other conditions. The selection procedures count against people with AS including the ND people.
The support is decreaing, the best support is available from Prospects in London where there are more jobs. Outside London, there are fewer jobs, the transport costs and time of ttravel is huge.
Outside London a lot of work is controlled by recruitment agencies which generally do not have a clue about dissabilities.
Graduates with AS are going to be over - qualified for many non - graduate jobs, graduate jobbs are fiercely competitive even before the recession.
Few people with AS can work in a call centre, administration job are against dyspraxic people.
I think 85% may be accurate or too high.
I would caution you, though, to match your definition of "unemployment" to the global unemployment figures you're comparing against.
For instance, if you're comparing to a global unemployment figure that excludes children, students, retirees, and other non-seekers, and doesn't account for the potentially underemployed, for a more accurate apples to apples comparison, you should use the same rules.
They can bring stengths such as organization, structure, and control into a lab, with a strong aptitude for data, and statistics.
With these strengths the person may in fact advance in their career to a level that when they are managing employees, only then do the problems begin to surface.
I think this is what happens for alot of Aspies like myself. Just my thoughts on the matter...
misleading. A factory job could doesn't mean low social expectations and factories can be noisy, rigid environments that can drive an aspie to meltdowns.
Since when is *teaching* a job where the teacher won't have to do much social interacting? Students of teachers are people too.
My husband is 30 and has had over 150 jobs, lol, I know crazy. Most of his problems, from what I understand, is his strict moral and social code, he can not stand by and watch someone be harrassed, and really takes safety seriously. He has worked as a drywaller and cook mostly.
He is very high functioning and seems to rub people the wrong way, especially bully/macho managers. It is something I don't fully understand because he is non-confrontational, funny, and very polite. He tells me exactly what he says and what the responses are, I see nothing wrong, yet he still becomes unemployed.
He is working at the same production company as me now, it is a good place. They seem to like him, he does good work, but a lot of the patterns are starting to repeat themselves. It seems to be one manager in particular who 'contadicts himself regularily and changes the subject when he is wrong'.
I guess what I'm trying to ask is if anyone has disclosed their AS? How did that go? Any advice for staying employed?
"We need to acknowledge and modify the faulty logic which uses social skills as an ultimate measure of competence and is applied by many employers even in areas where social skills are not needed for doing the job right."
I just recently lost an opportunity to be permanently employed because of this. I worked in the diagnostic imaging field as a temp or fill in for a couple years, same academic credentials as any colleague/co-worker, no competency issues ever just social cluelessness is what haunts me. The rejection speech from upstairs is always "the other candidate was a better fit". They didnt care if I have 3 children and the other candidate was a young single female living at home with her parents,no children.She was offered the permanent position after being there one month..she is set for life and i continue to struggle. My last job in this field I was grossly underpaid because I just didnt understand how to assert myself to a boss and negotiate a salary. I'd ask for more money but would get turned down, next person would get significantly more, same experience as me.
Dating was a nightmare. I was a late bloomer was severely taken advantage of and abused by men. I just couldnt get it and the frustration of seeing other girls younger than me get it and work it to their advantage realy screwed with my self esteem. I paid and paid dearly. Always had the wrong friends..I clung to people who I perceived "got it" and saw them as mentors- I was never respected. I knew that real connections were few and far between for me so I clung onto anyone who tolerated me and gave me attention, it was always to my expense.
I have 3 children with a man I thought was the one,unfortunately he turned out to have severe mental issues (BPD, major narcissist with anxiety issues)he can be very verbally/emotionally abusive because of my limitations the narcissist in him becomes contemptuous and resentful when I dont live up to his lofty standards. I have trouble with balancing chores, errands, and interacting with my kids. I make sure they are properly fed and kept clean but I am terrible at executing every other priority/tasks. I know what needs to be done but I just cant do it. It takes hours to do something that an NT housewife would accomplish in minutes-I become very wrapped up in all the datails of everything im supposed to do and pulled in so many directions without actually finishing what I start then to be consistently interuppted by the kids and their schedule. I cant get back on track and by the time I can I have very little physical energy because I also have hypothyroidism, so im exhausted very easily. I need copious amounts of down time zoning out in front of the tv to calm me down...I have no desire to interact with or relate to my children, read to them or play. I hate going out so they stay in mostly. I am utterly exhausted at doing the bare minimum, which for NT women would be nothing to them, another day of being a working mom or stay at home mom...I dont excel at either.Im pretty good at my job but I end up being the oddball weirdo. Im attractive but I always look basic because i cant fuss with hair and make up, I'd get too overwhelmed in the morning if I had to fuss...sooo iyts not like I have looks? to motivate and employer to keep me and male coworkers to pine for me. Im now unemployed while my coworkers flourish in nice homes, vacations, nice cars (my field pays well)...im stuck I dont even think I could get disability for this. I could work somewhere else but I know its the same story, I would get pushed out as always.
I hate myself, my life and I feel sorry for my children that I am their mother.
We only recently came to learn about Aspie. We are pretty sure our youngest boy (now almost 25) has it. He has several of the symptoms. He was treated for ADHD for 7 years or so when he was younger. If Aspie had existed then, he probably would have been diagnosed with it.
He has held 2 jobs so far. Both he was doing very well in and then lost unexpectedly.
We do not live near him now, so we don't know the circumstances of his latest job loss. But we suspect it has to do with Aspie.
(Both jobs were minimum wage, part time. The last in computers - something he really likes.)
He doesn't have medical insurance, we're pretty sure, so do you have any idea how he could claim job discrimination and get his job back?
Don't mean to put you on the spot. If you don't know, don't worry. I'm doing a lot of searching on the subject.
Have a good day.
Without knowing exactly why your son lost his job, I really can't tell you how he can try to get it back.
The reality of it though is that nobody really should try to get their old job back in these sorts of circumstances as organisations tend to have long memories and it's not likely to be a comfortable experience for him.