Don't ask me where I get these topics from (sigh). They usually come up because I read someone's comments about something in a forum and start applying them to myself to see if they fit.
The answer is;
Amongst People who don't know them very well - NO
Amongst Friends - YES.
Why is this?
There are a lot of social cues that people use to determine whether or not someone is lying. These include;
This means that when someone who doesn't know the aspie well is talking to them, they often interpret the aspie as lying even when they're telling the truth.
Conversely, when someone who knows the aspie and their behavior very well is talking to them, they won't be able to use these things as clues. They know that their friend does this all the time. Of course, if the person has reason to suspect that the aspie is lying, they may well be able to look further.
One strange thing is that NT's think that they can say "Look me in the eye and say....". The thing is, that whether we're lying or being truthful, it's pretty much impossible to look anyone in the eye for long. NT's only ask you to do that when they're suspicious of something but I don't think it helps either way. They'll always interpret it as a lie.
The other thing that I think aspies can do, certainly I can do, is...
Rewriting Memories
This is where you take an existing memory that you want to forget/erase and you spend time creating a replacement false memory. You then join it to the existing surrounding memories (ie: memories that occur just before and just after the event you want to forget) and replay those memories together over and over again in your head. This effectively changes the "extraction keys" to the new memory.
It takes a little time but eventually the new memory takes root and the old one fades. It doesn't fade entirely and it's possible for someone with a clear memory of the event to break though by discussing details. This can be quite painful for the aspie since they're usually painful memories anyway (things they want to forget) and it's a bit like re-living the experience in fast forward.
I've included rewriting memories here mainly because it's associated with falsifying information. I'm not really sure how useful it would be in an outright lying situation.
The answer is;
Amongst People who don't know them very well - NO
Amongst Friends - YES.
Why is this?
There are a lot of social cues that people use to determine whether or not someone is lying. These include;
- Eye Contact (which aspies have trouble doing)
- Certain "nervous" body gestures like clasping hands (which aspies do naturally)
- Differences in vocal tone (which aspies don't vary as much)
- Facial Tics or twitches (which aspies often have naturally)
This means that when someone who doesn't know the aspie well is talking to them, they often interpret the aspie as lying even when they're telling the truth.
Conversely, when someone who knows the aspie and their behavior very well is talking to them, they won't be able to use these things as clues. They know that their friend does this all the time. Of course, if the person has reason to suspect that the aspie is lying, they may well be able to look further.
One strange thing is that NT's think that they can say "Look me in the eye and say....". The thing is, that whether we're lying or being truthful, it's pretty much impossible to look anyone in the eye for long. NT's only ask you to do that when they're suspicious of something but I don't think it helps either way. They'll always interpret it as a lie.
The other thing that I think aspies can do, certainly I can do, is...
Rewriting Memories
This is where you take an existing memory that you want to forget/erase and you spend time creating a replacement false memory. You then join it to the existing surrounding memories (ie: memories that occur just before and just after the event you want to forget) and replay those memories together over and over again in your head. This effectively changes the "extraction keys" to the new memory.
It takes a little time but eventually the new memory takes root and the old one fades. It doesn't fade entirely and it's possible for someone with a clear memory of the event to break though by discussing details. This can be quite painful for the aspie since they're usually painful memories anyway (things they want to forget) and it's a bit like re-living the experience in fast forward.
I've included rewriting memories here mainly because it's associated with falsifying information. I'm not really sure how useful it would be in an outright lying situation.
Comments
i remember rewriting memories myself as a child.
rewriting memories could be a very good way of lying, it can take some time but then u would lie very well since u would be convinced to tell the truth.
also i had gifts for acting, which i explain as "normal social life" is an acting session for an aspie, and also (the ability to rewrite memory / low ego) and u become the character.
My only problem on stage was remembering characters names :p
my father and mother have the same issues with authority, so it s probably innate behavior.
i remember in a great number of times my family telling me they would never know if i m joking or telling the truth, same with my close friends so i developped a kind of humour based on this ambiguity, where i state opinions contrary to my belief to make them appear ridiculous and then they realise it s not my opinion and i did it on purpose.
thx for the blog, very useful!
aduroyon@yahoo.ca
Re-writing memories - not really. Chameliorisation definitely. I'm a good blender.
i related to the other anonymous who said s/he often states the opposite of what s/he believes as a form of humor. often i'm taken seriously too. i've come to the conclusion that many off-the-spectrum don't understand irony. :)
He's never been very good at board games which is usually alright since he's not very competitive. Unfortunately, he's started to notice that in a group game he has the least amount of points of everyone. For awhile he just seemed depressed about it, then he discovered CHEATING. He's a pretty good cheater and it's made games very hard to play with him. We've told him this is the same as lying and that it is wrong, but he doesn't seem to understand.
We've gone so far as once discovering his cheating in a game, to not allow him to be named the winner, even if he has the most points. But that just seemed to make him angry and didn't solve our problem of him thinking it's okay to cheat. Any ideas as to how we could get this idea across to him? We really want to include him in this kind of social activity, but he needs to engage in it correctly. Help?
It really depends on the type of cheating that is taking place. If for example, the cheating is simply that he's throwing the dice funny, then that's not necessarily cheating.
If he's taking money from the monopoly bank, peeking at cards and putting them back etc... then it's something you can deal with.
The best you can do is warn him once that the behaviour is cheating and won't be tolerated.
If the behaviour repeats during the same session, remove him from the game. Don't allow him to finish but tell him he didn't win because in his mind, he did.
Make the consequences immediate.
At first they were obvious fantasies, the dog talking to me etc... but as I got older I started using them when I got very emotionally upset.
It was only fairly recently that I started to realise that it probably wasn't a good thing to be able to do it.
I agree that acting is basically our entire social life.
People often can't tell when I'm telling the truth or lying, so my sense of humor is very much the same as anonymous. Sometimes, I've gone entire friendships without ever stating my real opinions. Since people don't think like me, it rarely matters if I'm directly myself or not; playing Devil's Advocate is fun, and if they think I'm weird, hey, they would have thought so the other way around, but at least this way, I'm having fun : )
I never thought of body language & lying. I should look more into that. Eye contact feels empty/meaningless to me, so I always "lock-on". I've always laughed at the "look me in the eyes and say that" for a different reason, haha.
What I observe and retain I rely on to help me interpret the world around me, and allows me to function in this world. If I have received false information, either fed to me deliberately, or obtained and accepted as fact something which is not really true, and acting on that information gets me in trouble (as has happened)... Well, why would I want to deliberately screw myself?
If I wanted only to feel good, I suppose I could drink alcohol or take recreational drugs, and I have deliberately walked away from those things. So why would I alter my recording of reality? What I would possess would no longer be real, and I do not see any value in false memories.
I'm actually surprised to hear that someone with a good memory would even consider such a thing.
Thanks for your suggestions.
This will at least enable your daughter to know that when she lies, it's wrong.
Determining an appropriate punishment is difficult but it makes sense that whenever possible, it should fit the crime. Perhaps the best punishment would be for her to have to go and apologize to each person that she lied to and tell them the truth.
It won't take long for that to embarrass her enough that the lying stops happening.
It's really disheartening because I can never trust her. She knows lying is wrong. She just thinks it's worth trying to get away with... I don't get it.
I saw good advice on how to teach Aspie children, but is it possible to teach Aspie adults who haven't yet learned that lying isn't okay? The trust in our marriage is basically gone.
He shows a lot of signs of things that are clearly NOT Asperger's as well.
One thing that I would point out however is that you damage your argument by using the word "disease" to describe Aspergers.
While it's still technically within the definition "a disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, especially one that produces specific symptoms or that affects a specific location and is not simply a direct result of physical injury."
People refer to Aspergers as a disorder, not a disease. It's not catching.